Speculative R&D: Game Controllers

[aweigh]

PEAK is coming... loved my apex 3, can't wait for the new model.

[aweigh]

new Gulikit just dropped

[Vergil]

I like the PS4 controller I don't think I'll ever switch from that tbh. The PS5 controller is ugly as fuck.

[Rand]

I loathe the asymmetrical XBOX controller layout.

[aweigh]

damn this purple looks so nice. new 8bitdo colorway just dropped

[aweigh]

new PB Tails "Crush" controller just dropped. the more i look at it the more i like the aesthetic behind it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pb ... to-victory

video review:


media images:

[J1M]

Playing dress up is for girls.

[aweigh]

Recently bought the Sony DualSense EDGE "pro" controller and i am really, really liking it. I hate to give Sony props but this thing is really well made, and is packed with features. It might possibly be the best controller i've ever used, definitely top 3. This thing feels really good in the hand, extremely well-made, very solid. They also subtly changed the grip handle contours so it's ever-so-slightly more comfortable and ergonomic than the regular DualSense.

At a glance the Edge has: the trackpad, the 6-axis gyro, advanced haptic feedback and force feedback triggers (they require the game to have those programmed in beforehand), swappable/modular analog sticks plus the regular features that any other controller has.

You *can* do some fun things with the force feedback triggers using PC software, specifically DS4Windows and DSX, but so far i've found that it's best used for something like racing or flight simming. To clarify; i'm referring here to user-made force feedback trigger effects, stuff that you set yourself in the software like have the trigger act like a machine gun, have the trigger act like a race car throttle, have the trigger harden by 25% every 4 intervals, etc.

The games which have their own pre-programmed trigger force feedback profiles do their own thing, and obviously you don't need to set anything yourself. To be quite frank tho... it's cool and all but other than for racing (throttle/clutch profiles) i don't really see much point to setting anything up yourself. In ratchet and clank there's some interesting usage where if you press the trigger down lightly it activates the basic fire mode for your weapon, and if you press the trigger further down it activates the advanced fire mode.

...but I mainly just keep the trigger stops engaged which automatically disables the trigger force feedback. When you engage the trigger stops it disables the trigger force feedback and instead shortens the trigger travel distance by about 75%, so you only need to push the trigger down 25% to hit the stop and activate the trigger input. I basically just keep the trigger stops always engaged.

Anyway, you can also set the controller touchpad to function as a regular trackpad and control the mouse pointer. This could possibly have some uses in some older Windows games or some other more niche use cases. Not really feasible to use it a full-on trackpad for CRPG gaming however because of the position it's in; it's positioned in the center of the controller, whereas the Steam controller/Steam deck trackpads are positioned right where your thumbs would normally rest at.

You can do touch gestures though which have more immediate practical uses, for example swipe up to open the Start Menu, swipe down to minimize the current program/game, etc. Can have more uses with emulator usage, specifically Nintendo crap like NDS/3DS.

The controller also has 6-axis gyro which you can also configure as a 'mouse pointer' as well, if you want. I don't personally use gyro much but i know it has a lot of practical uses, arguably more practical use cases than the touchpad. On PC you can use software like the ones i mentioned to fully configure and fine-tune the gyro and use it for however you want, though the most common use case is making Left Trigger activate the gyro for when you aim down sights then when you release LT the gyro will automatically disable.

Now the real star of the show for meare the analog sticks. Yeah you can swap 'em out but what I'm talking about here more is about the QUALITY of the analog stick modules. Whatever modules Sony is sourcing for their Edge controller are some of the BEST in quality I've ever used. They're completely frictionless and have excellent spring tension, they feel like an absolute joy to use and move the stick around, and the anti-friction rings are buttery smooth. Absolutely ZERO complaints about the analog sticks, they feel fucking fantastic in usage, a very premium-feeling experience. They're easily the "smoothest" feeling analog sticks I've ever used, period.

Lastly I'll also mention the regular rumble / "haptic feedback". This is separate from the force feedback capability of the triggers. I don't really know all the details but i'll just say the rumble feels of much higher quality than what's in other controllers, and you can tell distinct rumble 'stages'; you can easily feel softer vibrations as well as stronger ones, a much more nuanced vibration than what i'm used to getting from other controllers. Of course, like the trigger force feedback, this is more gimmick than anything else, and i know a lot of people just turn rumble off altogether if only to save battery life. But still worth mentioning it as it is a feature.

Oh, almost forgot, they also apparently worked on the d-pad as well, it feels much better than the d-pad on the regular DualSense. It's still the exact same d-pad but they definitely did *something* to it, it feels tighter on the Edge and it does not feel mushy like it does on the regular DualSense. Same with the start and select buttons; also feel springier/tighter (in a good way). The 4 face buttons feel identical to the regular DualSense, no change there. One thing I grew to appreciate about the DualSense/Edge face buttons is how quiet they are, no tacky-sounding loud clacking from pressing them.

Also the controller has a built-in microphone as well as have a built-in MUTE button. The mic is actually always on by default so you have to press the mute button to mute it. However, on PC the microphone doesn't work wirelessly, only when connected via the USB cable, which is unfortunate.

EDIT: Realized I didn't even talk about the 2 back paddles or the 2 FN buttons. I'm tired of typing so real quick, you get 2 extra back inputs which you can use with either a paddle or a half-dome button attachment (you'll understand better if you watch the video i linked below or look up any media images of the controller), and you also get 2 FN buttons located right below each analog stick. On PC you can program the FN buttons to whatever you want, basically 2 extra inputs.

All in all the controller has the following input possibilites: d-pad, analog sticks, l1/r1, left and right triggers, 4 face buttons, start, select, touchpad which includes the 4 zones of the touchpad where each can act as a unique input plus clicking in the touchpad itself for one more input, 2 back buttons, 2 FN buttons.

Grand total of 25 possible inputs, the most out of any controller on the market. This is mostly of interest for the peeps who use these for flight simming or for other very niche use cases.

EDIT 2: also it comes with extra analog sticks of different heights and a convex (domed) tip. 2 tall domed sticks and 2 medium-height dome sticks, plus the 2 'regular' hybrid sticks that every DualSense comes with by default.

Here's a random video talking about the Edge just to end the post with some media footage, I'll link whichever one appears on the top of the YT search for "dualsense edge" nah here's vCuda's review of the Edge instead, it's funnier:

[Rand]

[aweigh]

Still enjoying the DualSense Edge. Only con is the short battery life, battery only lasts around 5-7 hours depending on whether you use rumble or not.

Feels weird not being after another controller, been a while since I've just felt satisfied and focused on using just one controller to game without thinking of buying another one.

I do still plan on eventually getting the Flydigi Apex 4, I *really* want it and it's the first controller on the market that has both adjustable tension and adaptive triggers, along with mechanical buttons. Plus the Flydigi d-pad wheel is really fucking good too, in a class of its own.

But yeah, with the Edge I really don't feel like I gotta go get the Apex 4 any time soon. Just been gaming, enjoying using it. It's a great, well-made controller. Props to Sony. It's MUCH better than the Xbox Elite.

[Rand]

Still enjoying the DualSense Edge. Only con is the short battery life, battery only lasts around 5-7 hours depending on whether you use rumble or not.

Feels weird not being after another controller, been a while since I've just felt satisfied and focused on using just one controller to game without thinking of buying another one.

I do still plan on eventually getting the Flydigi Apex 4, I *really* want it and it's the first controller on the market that has both adjustable tension and adaptive triggers, along with mechanical buttons. Plus the Flydigi d-pad wheel is really fucking good too, in a class of its own.

But yeah, with the Edge I really don't feel like I gotta go get the Apex 4 any time soon. Just been gaming, enjoying using it. It's a great, well-made controller. Props to Sony. It's MUCH better than the Xbox Elite.

But you can use it plugged in, yes?

[Rand]

Props to Sony. It's MUCH better than the Xbox Elite.

I've always said the Sony controllers were better than Xbox's.
And it's not just because I strongly prefer the thumbstick position.

Are the hall effect stick replacements available yet?

[Oyster Sauce]

Just want to say that I fucking hate the nigger who decided to put gigantic glowing lights on controllers and I will shoot the retarded faggot who gave the PS4 controller a headlight that reflects off of the screen even on the lowest possible brightness setting.

[aweigh]

@rusty_shackleford

[rusty_shackleford]

@rusty_shackleford

Doesn't look like it has anywhere near enough keys.

[aweigh]

https://opattack.com/sony-patent-could- ... ext-level/

[rusty_shackleford]

What's the best controllers for arcade space shooter-like games such as Everspace 2?

[J1M]

What's the best controllers for arcade space shooter-like games such as Everspace 2?

I think more people had flight sticks in 1996. The market basically assumes an Xbox controller now. If you are looking at buying a HOTAS, find out which ones already have config files for the game you want and pick from that list. It will still be a pain to configure.

[Xenich]

What's the best controllers for arcade space shooter-like games such as Everspace 2?

I think more people had flight sticks in 1996. The market basically assumes an Xbox controller now. If you are looking at buying a HOTAS, find out which ones already have config files for the game you want and pick from that list. It will still be a pain to configure.

Yeah, Everspace is funky in its design. I would say mouse or a controller is best for that, though you may be able to tweak a setup to make it work. I tried with this setup:

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/product ... oller.html




But it was going to take a lot of work to make it work really well, but it was possible (this setup has a fully configurable software with it that allows for complete customization on everything).

edit: The joystick is a little loose out of the box, but there are 3rd party parts you can get to stiffen it up to your tastes. Aside from that, I found it to be a superb setup for most things).

[Xenich]

My fingers are too old to learn new buttons like that. Thanks though now I know why I fail.

Because I always liked gadgets, I have picked up various PC devices over the years including controllers for them. They are ok for playing the old arcade style games, but I can not stand using them for modern PC games.

I remember reading some comment from the developer of the Dark Souls series when people were complaining about the ports to PC and how the controls for mouse/kb were completely broken without extensive modding and adjustments. His response was akin to saying that the games difficulty is centered around mastering the controller and PC mouse/kb interfaces circumvented that level of difficulty.

I have to say, I find that to be fairly true as once I finally got my Mouse/KB configured perfectly, the game became much easier in those early titles. That really annoyed me because the limitation and focus consoles placed on PC games due to most of them being ported and the fact the fact that mastering a game was not about the game entirely, but about the limitations of the interface.

I think the last action game I played that was actually developed well for a mouse/KB was Jade Empire Special Edition, but they don't spend much time on PC anymore and everything is about using a stupid controller.

[Oyster Sauce]

@aweigh you still using the Edge Pro? You think it's better than the Xbox Elite Series 2? Looking to replace my standard Xbone controller with the best one money can buy right now. Not having back buttons is killing me.

[Oyster Sauce]

I bought this because Aweigh recommended it even though he has me on ignore

[BobT]

I bought this because Aweigh recommended it even though he has me on ignore

Is it any good?
I still have the Steam controller, but I don't use it much (only for VERY consoley games, the last one being Attack on Titan) but it hurts my hands a lot because the plastic is VERY hard.

[Oyster Sauce]

I bought this because Aweigh recommended it even though he has me on ignore

Is it any good?
I still have the Steam controller, but I don't use it much (only for VERY consoley games, the last one being Attack on Titan) but it hurts my hands a lot because the plastic is VERY hard.

Won't get it until Sunday

[Segata]

I don't recommend buying Switch controllers for PC, they have shit analog sensitivity and will ruin your gameplay in games requiring precision

[aweigh]

so...

i've bought a ton of controllers since last time.

i've acquired and now own:

- Flydigi Apex 4

- Flydigi Vader 3 Pro (re-bought the Vader 3 Pro, don't ask, it's a dumb story. Basically I broke my previous V3P accidentally by opening it up. it's not an interesting anecdote. For full disclosure, I bought a V3P upon its initial product launch but the very same day I got it in my hands I opened it up and accidentally broke it, I felt too ashamed afterwards to try to get the chinks from Aliexpress to exchange it for me so I just took the L and moved on, but now a year later I decided to re-buy it from Amazon and now own a new V3P again).

- Flydigi Vader 2

- GameSir Nova Lite budget controller

- Scuf Envision Pro

I actually bought so many controllers I don't truthfully remember all of them right now (a bit drunk).

Ok, sow hat is the point of this post?

My new recommendations:

- BUDGET CONTROLLER RECOMMENDATION: GameSir Nova Lite *really* impressed me for its price, for $25 dollars this is easily, EASILY the best ultra-budget low-cost controller I've ever used. Triggers feel good, face buttons feel good and snappy, d-pad is good enough, joysticks are Hall Effect and additionally they feel good enough as well... mind you, when I say "good enough" i mean 1) when taking the ultra low-budget $25 price into consideration, and 2) when compared to a stock Xbox Series controller.

So yeah, if you *need* a controller right now and don't want to spend more than $30 dollars, I say get the GameSir Nova Lite. It was SURPRISINGLY good for its price. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's amazing or that it feels great or anything, just that for $25 dollars it feels *almost* as good as a stock Xbox controller.

- REAL RECOMMENDATION, MID-RANGE $75: So... the Vader 3 Pro is fucking amazing. Hall Effect analog sticks that feel fantastic (much better than the ones on the Nova Lite; analog sticks are NOT made the same), they feel buttery smooth when used and are completely frictionless during movement, just a joy to use. Mechanical-switch face buttons that actually FEEL GOOD to press. Amazing trigger stop switches for the analog triggers that turn them into """ mouse clicks """ (basically it just turns the trigger into a digital mechanical switch button press). Amazing mechanical d-pad, made with the custom Flydigi "floating wheel" which I believe is THE best d-pad in the business. 4 back buttons. Gyro sensor included.

Yeah. Vader 3 Pro is the real deal. Get this controller if you need a controller for PC.

Alternatively, I also recommend the PS5 DualSense controller in the $75 dollar range. Feature-wise the Vader 3 Pro probably wins out, and it has better technology in its analog sticks (plus back buttons, which the stock DS does not have), but don't get it twisted: the DualSense is an EXCELLENT controller. Extremely well made. At this price range I feel confident recommending either of these. Or get both!

- HIGH-PRICED LUXURY CONTROLLER THAT FEELS ULTRA PREMIUM IN YOUR HANDS, LIKE IT'S A FUCKING PRIVILAGE TO HOLD:

So I just got the Flydigi Apex 4 and the SCUF Envision Pro. They're both fucking amazing. Both feature 4 back buttons, mechanical switch buttons and d-pad, etc. The fucking works. Both have the rubber grips, smooth-touch high-quality plastics for the controller shell. They feel orgasmic to hold.

I'll admit it, it's hard to say which is best. But doing my best to be objective, the Flydigi Apex 4, their new top of the line flagship is the best. The analog sticks on the Apex 4 are tension-adjustable which means you can use a key to dial in precisely how "tight" you want the analog sticks to feel when used, and let me tell you this shit is no joke. It's like the tension adjustment technology from the Elite controllers except 10x better. I was gonna type up a whole bunch of autistic sperg nonsense describing these orgasmic analog sticks but I'll just say it like this: The Apex 4 analog sticks are the best analog sticks on any controller right now, bar none. They feel fucking AMAZING to use, are extremely accurate and with adjusted tension they feel insanely "premium". There's really no competition. They are the best, period.

So if the analog sticks are so good on the Apex 4, why even bother mentioning the Scuf Envision Pro? Well the Scuf controller is no slouch. Analog sticks are not as good as the Apex 4 but the overall build quality on the controller is fantastic, well above average, and it has 5 extra PC-exclusive "G keys" on the front of the controller which you can program with the Scuf iCue software to do all sorts of crap like control media or assign Windows functions. Personally I don't really have a use for them but some of you might.

It's hard to put into words why one controller is "better" than another when talking straight features, it's something you have to hold in your hands and put some time in to get a feel for. Apex 4 is the obvious luxury choice, if you don't mind paying $150, get the Apex 4. It's legit. It's a high quality luxury controller. But the Scuf Envision Pro is also great. They're different shapes, Flydigi uses "Xbox-style" controller shell while the Scuf controller is a "Playstation-style" controller shape and layout, so that could be a factor. I also haven't mentioned all of the different things you can do with the software for either of these controllers; both Flydigi and Scuf have software that allows fine-tuning of the particulars, remappings, etc. (Though the Flydigi software package is far superior).

I'll say this: max-tension Apex 4 analog sticks feel amazing, feels like you're privilaged in being allowed to use them. The re-centering spring on the Apex 4 sticks is easily the strongest I've ever felt, those sticks are NEVER deviating off center with that spring. (Some cheaper analog sticks can have their spring become loose over time making them feel sloppy and deviate off-center). That shit ain't never happening to the Apex 4 sticks. So yeah I guess I'm saying the Apex 4 is better, lmao.

EDIT: here's a video review of the flydigi apex 4



Also wanted to say, if you don't feel like paying $150 dollars don't worry, the flydigi Vader 3 Pro is like 80% as good as the Apex 4 for half the price. Sure, you can't adjust the tension on the sticks but they're already great, and the mechanical buttons are similar (if not identical). And no, I'm not sponsored by flydigi. I just think they make good controllers.

[aweigh]

Don't think i've ever mentioned it here but a huge part of the enjoyment i get out of a controller is actually tied with the different thumbstick "grips", or "caps", that you can buy and use. The best ones (and most expensive) are the kontrolfreeks brand, the rubber and patterns they use on their stick grips are unbelievably high-quality and INSANELY grippy:




In 2nd place I would give the nod to Scuf's Universal Thumbstick Grips. Their rubber isn't as grippy as the KontrlFreeks blend but it is still good, however they get the edge in being more 'universal' (the clamps extend to fit most thumbstick sizes) and they also offer better choices for domed enjoyers (oh and they're also cheaper than KF):



Oh. Right. I forgot to mention, there are several styles and designs for the stick grip but generally speaking it comes down to:

DOMED enjoyers (domed stick on the left)
(By the way this is NOT my photo, got it from searching. I would never put those disgusting stickers on my $200 controller, nor let it get so dirty)


CONCAVE enjoyers


DOMED (or "convex") have the mushroom tip and allows your thumb to freely rotate and glide across the domed surface, good for agile thumb movement, also allows "rolling" the thumb.

CONCAVE (think 'cave' i.e. hole, has a hole in the middle) are basically a flat surface but with an indentation in the middle of the surface area for your thumb to "fall into" and get locked in place. Concave can also be used by having your thumb grip the 'lip' of the stick cap as well, for better side-to-side leverage.

There's a lot that can be said about these designs but honestly at the end of the day it's just personal preference. Personally I really enjoy having something domed on the left stick, and something concave on the right stick. My current go-to setup is having a KontrolFreek low-rise 'Edge' (domed) on the left stick, and a KontrolFreek mid-rise 'Galaxy' (concave) on the right stick.

BTW, you can also buy 3rd-party analog stick replacements from companies like eXtremeRate, I've used them and they're decent (I still prefer KontrolFreek stick grips over them, however):

[Xenich]

I still have the SteelSeries Stratus XL, I always loved the way the analog sticks were placed, but the stupid thing has been hit and miss on the drivers over the years. It would break every so often when windows would update, so eventually moved on. Not a big controller fan, but this was my favorite .

[Shillitron]

@aweigh any recommendations for a Controller > PC that has wide compatibility with all games (Emulators / PC Games / Etc)

I've been getting by with an old PS3 controller for years but It requires a lot of button-binding-magic for certain console emulators.

[BobT]

I know he's not going to see this, but anyone else know if those additional sticks / caps can be used with that luxury Apex 4? <- Looks like they just pop off, so should be compatible?

Also do you need "big hands" for that one? I've held some controlers that hurt a bit as it felt like everything was too far away. Inversely the fucking steam controller has the B button SO close to the track pad that you end up touching the track pad and looking at the floor accidentally while pressing it. I had to mess around setting up a dead zone.

I don't use controlers much but might go through my Saturn games again next and it does work better for emulated stuff, so I'm thinking of upgrading as the cheap, hard/brittle plastic on the steam controler does make my hands sore after a while.

Also do these controllers easily map to windows keys for emulator compatibility? - Vid says they can be remapped.