The GNU/Linux Corner

[garren]

I've been using Manjaro with KDE for about 3-4 years, works for me, although I've been thinking of switching to just Arch with KDE. I'm just too lazy to switch and re-adjust everything to my liking again. Maybe when bcachefs stabilizes I'll make the switch since installing a new filesystem means that I gotta wipe everything anyway. Manjaro has shit the bed a few times when installing updates but I've managed to fix the issues and thankfully those have been getting less over time too.

I've also been looking at the KWinFT project with interest, one of the ex-devs forked KWin to make a better and faster version of it and make parts of it reusable for other desktops, he was even sponsored by Valve at some point for a couple of years. Although with the pace the project is going, who knows if it'll ever release.

[Atlantico]

I use FreeBSD. Why use Linux at all.

[garren]

I use FreeBSD. Why use Linux at all.

No gayms.

[Atlantico]

I use FreeBSD. Why use Linux at all.

No gayms.

[Konjad]

FreeBSD's hardware support is lacking too.

[Decline]

I use FreeBSD. Why use Linux at all.

Because I like my Operating System to have enough manpower to be able to keep up with modern technology, coding standards and security issues?

In b4 MIT/Berkely IT students clobbering trash together in the 70s and 80s is supreme code valid for all eternity.

[maidenhaver]

In b4 MIT/Berkely IT students clobbering trash together in the 70s and 80s is supreme code valid for all eternity.

Sounds based tbh

[Decline]

In b4 MIT/Berkely IT students clobbering trash together in the 70s and 80s is supreme code valid for all eternity.

Sounds based tbh

It's the same kind of based when you are 20 and smoke weed.
It's not the kind of based you build bridges from that survive you driving across it.
For that you want boring.

[Atlantico]

I use FreeBSD. Why use Linux at all.

Because I like my Operating System to have enough manpower to be able to keep up with modern technology, coding standards and security issues?

In b4 MIT/Berkely IT students clobbering trash together in the 70s and 80s is supreme code valid for all eternity.

"Modern technology" is not a selling point to me. I never run the "cutting edge". Just reliable hardware.

Coding standards and security issues are good enough in FreeBSD. People are running Windows 7 unironically.

[Decline]

Coding standards and security issues are good enough in FreeBSD.

They're already terrible in Linux, in the BSD world they're non-existent. And this won't ever change unless the BSD world can quadruple their manpower pool.

And this is just the stochastic argument. Then there's also the fact that the BSDs are full of ... let's say interesting opinions stemming from particular interests with commit rights.

BSD is entirely run on belief not technical merit.

[Atlantico]

Coding standards and security issues are good enough in FreeBSD.

They're already terrible in Linux, in the BSD world they're non-existent. And this won't ever change unless the BSD world can quadruple their manpower pool.

And this is just the stochastic argument. Then there's also the fact that the BSDs are full of ... let's say interesting opinions stemming from particular interests with commit rights.

BSD is entirely run on belief not technical merit.

OpenBSD is there if you want security.

[Decline]

OpenBSD is there if you want security.

That's just more marketing gobbledegook.

https://isopenbsdsecu.re/

[Atlantico]

OpenBSD is there if you want security.

That's just more marketing gobbledegook.

https://isopenbsdsecu.re/

A Linux nerd sperging over OpenBSD. Shocking. Just ... shocking.

Nerds are gonna nerd. You can find someone ranting for an hour over Linux distros, Windows, MacOS, name it.

[Lutte]

OpenBSD is there if you want security.

That's just more marketing gobbledegook.

https://isopenbsdsecu.re/

It is not as inflammatory as I expected. Yes, you can harden a linux distro beyond what OpenBSD does, but that's not the default and it's a lot of work to set everything up. OpenBSD also makes choices that go against performance, like rejecting hyperthreading, to avoid entire classes of problems. I wouldn't want to run it on my main computer to be honest, but if you're a rando setting up, say, a router, don't have much knowledge of security or time to invest, setting up OpenBSD in a secure manner will absolutely be a lot less effort than doing the dance on Linux. OpenBSD has less mitigations, but it also has less attack surfaces, it's the whole idea behind it, to be as KISS as possible, do less and be focused. Compare sudo (which, by the way, is regularly hit by major CVEs) to doas. Sudo is a staggering 223,957 lines of code! Most people have no idea how many things this thing can do and be customized to do. The vast majority of people don't use any of these features and just want a tool that gives them root privilege to run a command after they type their account password, but they are all a form of attack surface and make it difficult to review the code and tell when something is being done wrong.
Now, compare this to doas:
https://github.com/openbsd/src/blob/mas ... oas/doas.c
This is just 434 lines of code. Yes, it does a lot less than sudo. Most people wouldn't give a shit when it comes to this kind of utility. Your average C programmer can hold the entire code base in their head and have a good feel for what it does where and when. This is called having good taste in software development. The same philosophy is applied across an entire OS worth of tooling. GNU utilities in comparison are extremely bloated and have an infinite amount of flags nobody knows and almost never use.

By default, linux is an extremely insecure operating system. For example, the new IO subsystem (io_uring) of the kernel is just impossible to secure. It's high performance but it's also a crapshoot for security. Google disables it on their servers, Android and ChromeOS, but your average Linux distribution does not. Someone unaware who just throws a distro onto a computer leaves a wide attack surface open.

Some of this guy's gripes also apply to Linux.

For example :

>No context for security issues

That's exactly the same for the Linux kernel (though, not the entire ecosystem thankfully: always remember that the attitudes of linux kernel dev doesn't really match the whole, while the *BSD are developed as a singular unit). Linus has constantly rejected treating security bugs as a class of its own, doesn't mention in changelogs what is or not important etc.

Also, while OpenBSD itself is an unpopular OS, so many could make arguments about it being too obscure for people to care about, remember that (and unlike the other BSD) they as a group have produced a great amount of software that dominates the landscape with a pretty good track record. Everyone uses OpenSSH. That's actually a part of the OpenBSD OS. It's developed primarily on and for OpenBSD and ported on other platforms.

> The portable OpenSSH follows development of the official version, but releases are not synchronized. Portable releases are marked with a 'p' (e.g. 4.0p1). The official OpenBSD source will never use the 'p' suffix, but will instead increment the version number when it hits 'stable spots' in development.

tmux is also developed on the OpenBSD cvs.

Overall, I think a lot of the software development world would benefit to listen to the philosophy behind OpenBSD, just not be as extremist - OpenBSD cannot be considered a usable desktop environment, unless you're an extreme autist who only uses his computer for very specific tasks. I believe there's a middle ground between the extreme minimalist of the OpenBSD and suckless factions and the gigantic bloat and retardation of GNU.

Developing a whole OS together instead of being a bunch of haphazard shit thrown in a random distro also leads to less friction in userland tooling. When Linux introduced new networking capabilities, the APIs were incompatible with net-tools and a whole new set of utilities were created by a bunch of assholes who were inspired by Cisco, whose cmdline interfaces are really unfriendly. When OpenBSD does something like that, the developers update both the kernel APIs and their userland utilities. They don't suffer from CADT and chaos. To this day I lament that ifconfig and netstat and other associated tools became deprecated and unmaintained in favor of the crap that is called ip.

Make no mistake: Linux is only good because the competition for general purpose computing (Windows, macOS) is worse. It's not because it's a pristine, beautiful design on its own. OSes suffer from the ecosystem chicken and eggs problems, we've only recently become able to comfortably use Linux as a gaming system without too much fuss, any OS that wants to compete will have a humongous amount of work to support other OSes ecosystems before getting there, as no one will adopt a platform where most of the software they need doesn't work or doesn't work with good performance. In no way Linux is immune to criticism, far from it.

[rusty_shackleford]

openbsd is a libtard os

[Lutte]

openbsd is a libtard os

As opposed to this?
https://www.redhat.com/en/about/our-cul ... -inclusion



inb4 "I don't use Red Hat"

You sure do use a lot of their code though. They are one of the biggest employers of kernel and tooling development on the platform.

[rusty_shackleford]

openbsd is a libtard os

As opposed to this?
https://www.redhat.com/en/about/our-cul ... -inclusion



inb4 "I don't use Red Hat"

You sure do use a lot of their code though. They are one of the biggest employers of kernel and tooling development on the platform.

You mean I tricked a bunch of multi-billion dollar globohomo corporations to work for me and give me their product for free?
Excellent.

[Decline]

OpenBSD is there if you want security.

That's just more marketing gobbledegook.

https://isopenbsdsecu.re/

It is not as inflammatory as I expected. [words]

I am not saying that not-entirely-shit software doesn't exist, it does. And some of it is even developed on OpenBSD. This comes back to the point I made earlier in the thread, at an expert level of a craft the user of the tool becomes more important than the tool itself.

[Atlantico]

openbsd is a libtard os

If openbsd = libtard os, then MacOS equals what?

Windows equals what.

ChromeOS equals what.

[Decline]

openbsd is a libtard os

If openbsd = libtard os, then MacOS equals what?

Windows equals what.

ChromeOS equals what.

All OS are developed by libtard autists at this point. Even Loonis Terfhate is just a loud noise away from trooning out.

[Segata]

All OS are developed by libtard autists at this point

*blocks your path*

[WaterMage]

I have used Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, BigLinux, then Debian, in my last remote job as over 80% of my team used Arch, I switched to Arch so *.ssh can be easier shared between the team, din't liked and after being fired moved back to my Debian with KDE.

I have M$ Windows installed but don't log in for over an year. Games like Elden Ring runs better in Linux with proton than in M$ spyware/bloatware. If when I first started to use Linux, someone said that the performance would improve that much, I would't believe.

[Nemesis]

in my last remote job as over 80% of my team used Arch

Your co-workers used Arch on the job?

[WaterMage]

Your co-workers used Arch on the job?

Yes!!! But our client used Ubuntu.

[Nemesis]

Yes!!! But our client used Ubuntu.

What was the job? Are you all developers?

[WaterMage]

Yep. Developer. Sorry for the time to answer that message.

Anyway :

Linux Passes 4% Market Share Worldwide

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... r-BB1jstQl

[rusty_shackleford]

I wonder how much of that is due to steamdeck

[Nemesis]

Linux Passes 4% Market Share Worldwide

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... r-BB1jstQl

Can't stop winning.

[Pipeweed]

ok let me rephrase the question:
is it possible to get software graphics xorg or wayland on a machine without a gpu?
basically i want to run it in simple framebuffer

[Nemesis]

I have a 2007 imac with dead amd gpu and no igpu, so far i managed to boot linux tty on it which is awesome in itself. however how do I get into a graphical environment without acceleration? what kernel parameter and DE should i try?

Install xfce4 then run `startx` after booting.