Tim Cain creating "Cain on Games" videos

[Vergil]

2023 A.D. people are simping for Todd Howard.

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Todd is the greatest con man alive.

I'd rather a con man than a nigga who rides a man.

[Norfleet]

Todd is the greatest con man alive.

Surely not compared to Chris Roberts.

[Element]

2023 A.D. people are simping for Todd Howard.

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Todd is the greatest con man alive.

TBF he was the one who pushed for the xbox port for morrowind, and that ended up outselling the pc version and launching them to where they are today. Whatever his faults from our perspective, he did his job as project leader flawlessly.

[Vergil]

Todd is the greatest con man alive.

Surely not compared to Chris Roberts.

Weird how these sort of figures always end up making space games. What about the space RPG concept that lends itself to naked scams so easily?

[rusty_shackleford]

Todd is the greatest con man alive.

Surely not compared to Chris Roberts.

Weird how these sort of figures always end up making space games. What about the space RPG concept that lends itself to naked scams so easily?

There's barely any so people who like that specific niche are forced to support you.

[maidenhaver]

Its because Middle-Earth is real and space is fantasy.

[Sweeper]

Because A: Every RPG has combat

There you have it folks, it's finally settled, Disco Elysium is not an RPG.

[Lutte]

> Disco Elysium is not an RPG.

It's not even a game, the G of RPG.

[Humbaba]

Whatever Disco Elysium is, it's underwhelming on a first playthrough and painfully boring on a second one.



-Humbaba

[Sweeper]

Dunno, haven't played it, I just like hating on popular things.
Codex GOTY btw.

[rusty_shackleford]

There's no such thing as "combatless" RPGs because it's the definition of a computer RPG. If you included games without stat-based combat, then there would be no link between Wizardry & Ultima and the definition of RPG.
It would be like redefining RTS to exclude Dune 2, FPS to exclude Doom, so on and so forth.

"Choice & consequence", buildfaggotry, dialogue trees, etc., are not core to RPGs. They are just elements commonly found in modern RPGs, and some of them happen to help improve the core part of the RPG.

[revenant]

I haven't played it, but doesn't disco elysium have, like, one combat encounter?

[Dead]

RPGs should be centered around combat and have sufficiently developed combat systems. Having one or two encounters that involve combat isn't enough to qualify a game as an RPG.

[revenant]

As much as I find the idea counterintuitive, sometimes terms do change meanings over time. For example, black metal was one used only to describe bands with Satanic lyrical themes, but bands like Immortal redefined the genre so that it would definitely include them. If RPG's were dungeon crawlers only once doesn't mean they have to be like those games today.

[rusty_shackleford]

As much as I find the idea counterintuitive, sometimes terms do change meanings over time. For example, black metal was one used only to describe bands with Satanic lyrical themes, but bands like Immortal redefined the genre so that it would definitely include them. If RPG's were dungeon crawlers only once doesn't mean they have to be like those games today.

That's expanding the definition, not redefining it. Baldur's Gate is quite different from Wizardry, yet they share many similarities. You can trace a direct lineage from Wizardry to Baldur's Gate.
There is near zero overlap between Wizardry & Disco Elysium, therefore they cannot be in the same genre. Disco Elysium is arguably inspired by PlanetEscape: Tournament, a game that was already very divisive, with many deriding it as a non-RPG. Altho I do not agree with that, I do agree that something like Disco Colliseum could be derived from PaneScape: Ornament if you continue to remove the Wizardry from it.

[maidenhaver]

Disco had nothing to do with war gaming, so its a visual novel.

[Element]

I haven't played it, but doesn't disco elysium have, like, one combat encounter?

And you won't win it, even if you build your character around it

[Sweeper]

buildfaggotry

Buildfaggotry directly stems from the existence of numbers in RPGs. That's all it is at the end of the day, optimization of numbers. Are we now arguing that numbers aren't a core part of RPGs?
Point of fact, I'd argue buildfaggotry is actually more of a core in RPGs than roleplaying is. You can play an RPG without actively roleplaying at all, but you can't play RPGs without allocating attribute points.
Check and mate RPfags.

[Acrux]

Sounds like Tim is getting ready to summon the rotting corpse of Arcanum for modern gaymers.

[maidenhaver]

RPGs are party-based, aRPGs are about a player's avatar. A party-based game should be as close to tt as playable.

Wrong thread.

[Humbaba]

Sounds like Tim is getting ready to summon the rotting corpse of Arcanum for modern gaymers.

He will include more homosexuality, remove racism and gender based stat differences.



-Humbaba

[rusty_shackleford]

Old men with negative T levels cannot make good games, stop giving them platforms.

[maidenhaver]

Better have the troika games downloaded safely where they can't be patched and the original versions disappear.

[Humbaba]

Like the original versions are worth playing.



-Humbaba

[maidenhaver]

I replay ToEE every few years. I've never played Arcanum or VtMB.

[rusty_shackleford]

I replay ToEE every few years. I've never played Arcanum or VtMB.

Neither are anywhere near as good as everyone pretends.
ToEE with temple+ is alright.

[Acrux]

Speaking of which, there's a new Temple+ update today.

[Segata]

I talk about the five best computer role playing games of the 21st century from which to learn about RPG development...and exactly what each one teaches you. Plus, I add in three runners up, including why they didn't make the cut.

The HQ is gonna enjoy this

[Element]

World of Warcraft
Elden Ring
Skyrim
Fallout New Vegas
Baldurs Gate 3

Honourable mentions:
VtMB
Half Life 2 ( no, really )
Vampire Survivors

[Val the Moofia Boss]

"These are going to be five RPGs that I think are the best to learn from as certain aspects of them for game development, and specifically for for RPG development. Do I think these are the best games ever? Maybe not, maybe I do. That's not the point of this list. The point of this list is: do you want to learn how to make RPGs? There are five games on this list that you should pay attention to whether you like them or not. They do what they do better than anyone else."

When he brought up WoW (in the context of it being a modern RPG, ie the social interaction is long gone), I was expecting him to praise it for 1. its breadth of races and classes and customization, and the extremely flavorful class fantasies. WoW's paladins, warlocks wielding green fire and their alien looking demons, Demon Hunters, Death Knights, etc. I haven't found any other modern Western RPGs that had classes that felt as flavorful and as visually iconic as WoW classes. And 2. its snappy, responsive combat.

As for WoW being good because it's "easy" compared to Everquest, he really skims over it. Personally I found levelling in MMOs to be a lot more fun when it is "hard" and you have to group up with other players, like in FFXI and leads to people socializing, rather than the WoW experience of questing by yourself.

He later praises Skyrim for its art, which puzzles me since I found Skyrim's art to be pretty meh compared to WoW. It's grey and generic viking fantasy stuff with generic skeletons and wyverns and etc (this is a typical complaint I have with western RPGs, that they are visually meh to me), whereas WoW has better technical execution in the art assets and doodad placement and skyboxes, and has a lot of really visually imaginative zones and factions and so on. If I were to praise Skyrim, I'd praise for the seemless gameplay of going between different situations (ie wandering around the woods, then stumbling upon a cave, then sneaking around and checking for traps and sniping mobs, then exiting and sneaking into a town, then lockpicking houses and stealing, then getting caught and having to make an escape, etc), though I think Kingdom Come Deliverance might have it beat with more naturalistic map proportions and no loading screens when entering cities and buildings.