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Looking forward to this so I'm making a thread.

I see 3.5 edition + character customization and I'm interested.

Too bad none of these games will ever have the Tome of Magic Binder class in them.

I'm not interested in much games wise these days but this has me interested.

DrSneed wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:05
Too bad none of these games will ever have the Tome of Magic Binder class in them.

Never bothered to look into it but are those various splatbooks OGL?
I've never seen them included, maybe nobody can be bothered

There's even some gameplay videos.

► Show Spoiler

The video in the op showing off shoving was neat, at least BG3 is having some effect(I assume). Maybe we'll even get full grappling rules.

I think kotc2 is the only crpg that has bothered to implement all that stuff.

videoframe_35778.png.webp

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 07:06
[/spoiler]

opened this while laying in bed with my cat on me and cat jumped right up at the sound of the bird chirps

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:45

DrSneed wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:05
Too bad none of these games will ever have the Tome of Magic Binder class in them.
Never bothered to look into it but are those various splatbooks OGL?
I've never seen them included, maybe nobody can be bothered

Went and checked: it is not. Explicitly states the book contains no open game content.

Going to guess it's the same for weeaboo fightan magic etc.,

This looks promising.

DrSneed wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:05
Too bad none of these games will ever have the Tome of Magic Binder class in them.

I think the closest we have gotten for the Tome of Magic classes are the PRC mods for the first NWN game.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 07:17

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:45
Never bothered to look into it but are those various splatbooks OGL?
I've never seen them included, maybe nobody can be bothered
Went and checked: it is not. Explicitly states the book contains no open game content.

Going to guess it's the same for weeaboo fightan magic etc.,

Yeah, both 3.5 DnD and 1e Pathfinder had "magic for warriors" rules that I always assumed were copyrighted stuff.

Mounted combat rules in 3/3.5E were infamously fiddly, second only to grappling. Very curious to see how they implemented them. Can't think of another D&D RPGs that let you ride a horse in combat.

Also, ironic that 4E rules were criticised for being "too videogamey" yet D&D videogames ignored them completely, even going back to 3.5 instead.

Demonic Fate wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:19
Mounted combat rules in 3/3.5E were infamously fiddly, second only to grappling. Very curious to see how they implemented them. Can't think of another D&D RPGs that let you ride a horse in combat.

Also, ironic that 4E rules were criticised for being "too videogamey" yet D&D videogames ignored them completely, even going back to 3.5 instead.

@J1M was working on a 4e game and came to the conclusion that it just doesn't map well to computer play afaik.
I think a major issue was there's just too many choices during combat that would make it annoying to play at the computer, but I may be wrong.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:26

Demonic Fate wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:19
Mounted combat rules in 3/3.5E were infamously fiddly, second only to grappling. Very curious to see how they implemented them. Can't think of another D&D RPGs that let you ride a horse in combat.

Also, ironic that 4E rules were criticised for being "too videogamey" yet D&D videogames ignored them completely, even going back to 3.5 instead.
@J1M was working on a 4e game and came to the conclusion that it just doesn't map well to computer play afaik.
I think a major issue was there's just too many choices during combat that would make it annoying to play at the computer, but I may be wrong.

Pretty much. I think it could be adapted into a fun game by selecting a default for those choices, but then it wouldn't be faithful. Especially true for interrupts.

To be fair, 3.5 and 5e probably have the same issues if implemented RAW.

J1M wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:43

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:26

Demonic Fate wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:19
Mounted combat rules in 3/3.5E were infamously fiddly, second only to grappling. Very curious to see how they implemented them. Can't think of another D&D RPGs that let you ride a horse in combat.

Also, ironic that 4E rules were criticised for being "too videogamey" yet D&D videogames ignored them completely, even going back to 3.5 instead.
@J1M was working on a 4e game and came to the conclusion that it just doesn't map well to computer play afaik.
I think a major issue was there's just too many choices during combat that would make it annoying to play at the computer, but I may be wrong.
Pretty much. I think it could be adapted into a fun game by selecting a default for those choices, but then it wouldn't be faithful. Especially true for interrupts.

To be fair, 3.5 and 5e probably have the same issues if implemented RAW.

Have you played Solasta? I think it ended up having a fair amount of choices presented in combat.
BG3 copied them to some extent, I think. Can't quite remember right now. Some choices were made by toggles so that the choice made was always whatever the toggle was set to.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:45

J1M wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:43

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:26

@J1M was working on a 4e game and came to the conclusion that it just doesn't map well to computer play afaik.
I think a major issue was there's just too many choices during combat that would make it annoying to play at the computer, but I may be wrong.
Pretty much. I think it could be adapted into a fun game by selecting a default for those choices, but then it wouldn't be faithful. Especially true for interrupts.

To be fair, 3.5 and 5e probably have the same issues if implemented RAW.
Have you played Solasta? I think it ended up having a fair amount of choices presented in combat.
BG3 copied them to some extent, I think. Can't quite remember right now. Some choices were made by toggles so that the choice made was always whatever the toggle was set to.

Yes, I enjoyed the first Solasta. Lost Valley expansion in particular.

The game does a good job of presenting turn-based 5e, but it has compromises. For example, I don't think they implemented a lot of the standard actions someone can perform on a turn such as charge or bull rush. Or the ability to use skill checks in combat for taunt/feint/etc. If you look at something like Paladin smite and how using it brings up two dialog boxes when it is used you get a feel for what 4e RAW would be like if made into a game.

That said, I would love to play an adaptation of 4e's rules in a CRPG. I think healing surges are a better tool than spell slots or hit points for representing a party's diminishing resources as they press on.

J1M wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:58
I don't think they implemented a lot of the standard actions someone can perform on a turn such as charge or bull rush. Or the ability to use skill checks in combat for taunt/feint/etc.

Think NWN had these(the 3e equivalent, at least), I know the owlcat pathfinder games do.

Unless I'm misunderstanding and you mean that e.g., the player can decide what skill check Taunt uses, then it seems it would be best to just pick whatever is the most favorable for the player?

I'm so glad that we are getting more 3.5e indie games and less 5e slop.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 13:08

J1M wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 12:58
I don't think they implemented a lot of the standard actions someone can perform on a turn such as charge or bull rush. Or the ability to use skill checks in combat for taunt/feint/etc.
Think NWN had these(the 3e equivalent, at least), I know the owlcat pathfinder games do.

Unless I'm misunderstanding and you mean that e.g., the player can decide what skill check Taunt uses, then it seems it would be best to just pick whatever is the most favorable for the player?

They do. I was just using it to illustrate the trade-offs and choices games have made. Usually people only mention high level spells like Fly or Wish.

Those floor textures and barren environments burn my eyes.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:45

DrSneed wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 06:05
Too bad none of these games will ever have the Tome of Magic Binder class in them.
Never bothered to look into it but are those various splatbooks OGL?
I've never seen them included, maybe nobody can be bothered

Tome of Magic, at least, is not OGL.

This product uses updated material from the v.3.f revision. This WIZARDS OF THE Coast® game product contains no Open Game Content. No portion of this work may be reproduced in any
form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Gaming License and the d20 System License, please visit www. wizards.com/d20

https://archive.org/details/tome-of-mag ... 1/mode/1up

Dammit, rusty! Stop answering your own questions!!!

Hi everyone,

I'm the developer of Revenge of the Firstborn. It's cool to see a thread created about it here. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the game you might have.

To answer a couple from above:

1. Grappling is almost fully implemented. It doesn't have the pin action, but everything else from the grapple rules are in. I wanted there to be options for dealing with spellcasters other than trying to DPS them down. So, grapple away. Grapple rules were also required for creatures that can swallow you whole, such as the remorhaz and purple worm.
2. The riding rules were actually pretty straightforward. At least when compared to some of the weird spells I had to work out.
3. It's correct that the Tome of Magic is not included in the SRD, so can't include anything from it.

There's a bunch more FAQs in this post on the steam forums if you're curious.

And of course, I'd love for you to wishlist the game, it helps increase visibility in steam in the long run.

RPK wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 17:11
Hi everyone,

I'm the developer of Revenge of the Firstborn. It's cool to see a thread created about it here. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the game you might have.

To answer a couple from above:

1. Grappling is almost fully implemented. It doesn't have the pin action, but everything else from the grapple rules are in. I wanted there to be options for dealing with spellcasters other than trying to DPS them down. So, grapple away. Grapple rules were also required for creatures that can swallow you whole, such as the remorhaz and purple worm.
2. The riding rules were actually pretty straightforward. At least when compared to some of the weird spells I had to work out.
3. It's correct that the Tome of Magic is not included in the SRD, so can't include anything from it.

There's a bunch more FAQs in this post on the steam forums if you're curious.

And of course, I'd love for you to wishlist the game, it helps increase visibility in steam in the long run.

Could you answer a couple questions while you're here?

What engine are you using? Woops, it's in the FAQ! (Unity)
Will there be any kind of editor similar to the NWN toolkit?
Similar to the above question, any plans for mod support? I should have checked the FAQ first!

RPK wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 17:11
Hi everyone,

I'm the developer of Revenge of the Firstborn. It's cool to see a thread created about it here. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the game you might have.

To answer a couple from above:

1. Grappling is almost fully implemented. It doesn't have the pin action, but everything else from the grapple rules are in. I wanted there to be options for dealing with spellcasters other than trying to DPS them down. So, grapple away. Grapple rules were also required for creatures that can swallow you whole, such as the remorhaz and purple worm.
2. The riding rules were actually pretty straightforward. At least when compared to some of the weird spells I had to work out.
3. It's correct that the Tome of Magic is not included in the SRD, so can't include anything from it.

There's a bunch more FAQs in this post on the steam forums if you're curious.

And of course, I'd love for you to wishlist the game, it helps increase visibility in steam in the long run.

Are there any parts of the ruleset you are choosing not to adapt?

Are you familiar with the implementation of lighting/vision in Solasta leading to "anything but human" at character creation? Are you planning to design around this?

Does the game have crafting?
Yes, it implements the SRD crafting systems. So, take the correct feat and you can craft new items or enchant existing masterwork items. No carrying around endless weird ingredients in case you find the correct recipe that uses them.

Oh nice. I never liked hauling packs full of crap.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 17:16

RPK wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 17:11
Hi everyone,

I'm the developer of Revenge of the Firstborn. It's cool to see a thread created about it here. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the game you might have.

To answer a couple from above:

1. Grappling is almost fully implemented. It doesn't have the pin action, but everything else from the grapple rules are in. I wanted there to be options for dealing with spellcasters other than trying to DPS them down. So, grapple away. Grapple rules were also required for creatures that can swallow you whole, such as the remorhaz and purple worm.
2. The riding rules were actually pretty straightforward. At least when compared to some of the weird spells I had to work out.
3. It's correct that the Tome of Magic is not included in the SRD, so can't include anything from it.

There's a bunch more FAQs in this post on the steam forums if you're curious.

And of course, I'd love for you to wishlist the game, it helps increase visibility in steam in the long run.
Could you answer a couple questions while you're here?

What engine are you using? Woops, it's in the FAQ! (Unity)

Will there be any kind of editor similar to the NWN toolkit?

Similar to the above question, any plans for mod support? I should have checked the FAQ first!

I would absolutely love to include an editor like NWN's or Solasta's. It's on my wish list, but frankly, is likely to remain a wish. It expands the scope of work to such an immense degree

As you may have gleaned from my post or the FAQ, this is a solo project, so I have to keep a close eye on what's in and what's out.

@RPK
I think you have a typo in your system recommendation:

Recommended:
OS: 10
Processor: AMD Ryzen 3 1300X / Intel Core i5-7400
Memory: 12 MB RAM
Graphics: GeForce GTX 2060 or equivalent
DirectX: Version 10
Storage: 20 GB available space

If someone can still optimize a game well enough to run on 12 MBs of RAMs, they may as well just replace the recommended system requirements with a picture of a potato.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ July 16th, 2025, 04:58
@RPK
I think you have a typo in your system recommendation:
Recommended:
OS: 10
Processor: AMD Ryzen 3 1300X / Intel Core i5-7400
Memory: 12 MB RAM
Graphics: GeForce GTX 2060 or equivalent
DirectX: Version 10
Storage: 20 GB available space

640k ought to be enough for anyone

thanks for the heads up, I'll get it updated.

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ July 14th, 2025, 07:06
Character creator (hopefully devs will tune it up):

Looks like WotR/DDO's character creator lol

RPGHQ

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e

Revenge of the Firstborn — Turn-based 3.5e