Can anyone sell me on Planescape? I understand it's considered the pinnacle of a great RPG by so many, but for 20 years now I've have a hard time not just seeing it as a visual novel. The writing is overwrought. The combat is terrible. The overall gameplay is lacking. The ending is nihilistic.
Now, that being said, I love Siege of Avalon, and that's nearly a visual novel as well. But while the combat is much worse, I find the writing better, the story more compelling, and character customization more in-depth (not to mention the best paperdoll of any RPG).
Why should anyone try to sell you on a game you already played and didn't like
First time around here?
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 17:24
by WhiteShark
Unconventional Opionion: Roguelikes are the truest form of RPG. No other subtype of RPG so well integrates the simulationist nature of RPGs with the resource scarcity and consequences necessary for a proper game.
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 17:57
by ds.
Mayhap you are just not looking at it in the right way...
But yeah if you already played it and weren't impressed by the story then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to sell you.
Unconventional Opionion: Roguelikes are the truest form of RPG. No other subtype of RPG so well integrates the simulationist nature of RPGs with the resource scarcity and consequences necessary for a proper game.
When people talk about permadeath, they talk about us three being mean. 'Oh, they wanted to make it extra hard, so they threw in permadeath.' … permadeath is an example of 'consequence persistence.' … Do I read this scroll, do I drink this potion? I don't know. It might be good. It might be bad. If I can save the game and then drink the potion and—oh, it's bad-then I restore the game and I don't drink the potion. That entire game mechanic just completely goes away. So that was a whole reason why once you have taken an action and a consequence has happened, there's no way to go back and undo it.
…
The good stuff is just as permanent as the bad stuff.
What's missing from RPGs is consequence persistence.
Can anyone sell me on Planescape? I understand it's considered the pinnacle of a great RPG by so many, but for 20 years now I've have a hard time not just seeing it as a visual novel. The writing is overwrought. The combat is terrible. The overall gameplay is lacking. The ending is nihilistic.
It's because the game finds a way to speak to you. And because you find out cool shit about the people you're travelling with. And everyone wants to be someone's best friend.
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 21:27
by rusty_shackleford
Fall-From-Grace is the best waifu in any video game and if you disagree I'll see you on the playground after class.
And that's despite Avellone hating romances.
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 21:32
by The_Mask
I think Avellone was pushed to answer this "favourite companion" question once, and he said that if he were to choose, he'd probably choose Fall-From-Grace.
Mine is Yves the Tale Chaser. Obviously.
EDIT: I realize I mentioned a character not a companion. As companion I think I like Dak'kon the most.
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 21:48
by Acrux
Psst...you don't only have to talk about PST. It can be for any games you have an unconventional opinion about. @WhiteShark gets it.
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
by GhostCow
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dork souls manages to get the consequence persistence part right to some degree and as it turns out, people really like that their actions matter. Definitely one of the most underrated aspects/impacts of dork souls popularity.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
I think it's well-known that I like Dark Souls a lot. But, at the same time, when someone like you comes along and says that they don't think highly of it, it feels pointless of me to argue against it. It almost feels insulting to your whole experience accumulated, and your taste.
I like it because I could see the stamina regeneration bar on top of ever mob and/or boss I've fought, and I just found the fairness in terms of pacing refreshing.
I also love the fact that people that don't pay attention to the lore, as little as it is, set themselves on fire at the end of the game.
Both you thinking it's shit, and both me thinking it's great can exist just fine.
Unconventional Opionion: Roguelikes are the truest form of RPG. No other subtype of RPG so well integrates the simulationist nature of RPGs with the resource scarcity and consequences necessary for a proper game.
A big-budget roguelike would be interesting to see. As opposed to these linear 100-hour shits.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Okay, but this thread is about RPGs, not WWD games (wait-wait-dodge).
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 22:36
by Emphyrio
I've never played a Dark Souls game because it looks really boring and ugly and rolling around on the ground constantly is stupid.
I've never played a Dark Souls game because it looks really boring and ugly and rolling around on the ground constantly is stupid.
I've tried the actual dork souls games and the dork souls clones, and I don't find the combat fun. Especially in the later entries that leaned fully into "dork souls games are the hardest games evarrr!!!" and you end up with garbage like this:
Complete joke. The AI has no real fighting style or personality, just a simple state machine designed to counter the player.
And in the case of the PC ports of dork souls, the controls just feel completely unresponsive. I guess it's what console peasants are used to though?
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 22:47
by J1M
Yes, they confuse Japanese engineering failures of the PSX era with game design.
Resident Evil using tank controls is another example.
Unconventional opinions of RPGs
Posted: March 30th, 2023, 22:48
by Segata
I did not care for the Dark Souls series. It insists upon itself.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dark Souls is great and the combat is one of its strong points. Having just played Dark Messiah, the only aspect in which it's superior combat-wise is the physics interactions, but in every other aspect of combat Dark Souls blows it out of the water.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dark Souls is great and the combat is one of its strong points. Having just played Dark Messiah, the only aspect in which it's superior combat-wise is the physics interactions, but in every other aspect of combat Dark Souls blows it out of the water.
FACT:
any action-based combat game that features rolling as a primary mechanic is by default, stupid.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dark Souls is great and the combat is one of its strong points. Having just played Dark Messiah, the only aspect in which it's superior combat-wise is the physics interactions, but in every other aspect of combat Dark Souls blows it out of the water.
FACT:
any action-based combat game that features rolling as a primary mechanic is by default, stupid.
Rolling is good. Parrying is better. Rolling & Parrying is best.
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Okay, but this thread is about RPGs, not WWD games (wait-wait-dodge).
You definitely did a better job of describing why I think the combat is shit than I did
