Rand wrote: ↑
April 19th, 2024, 05:21
Xenich wrote: ↑
April 18th, 2024, 22:01
The rest doesn't change the fact that the Jews wanted him killed, sought to have him arrested, pushed for the entire thing, and ruled accordingly during Pilate. You can quibble over the Romans being mean or the like, but it doesn't change the fact that the Jews plotted and carried out to have him killed. There is no hiding from this.
Most of "the jews" never heard of the guy.
It was the high rabbis and their minions.
It's astroturfing from 2 millenia ago.
I'm sure the rabbis went to their followers and told them to form a crowd to antagonize Pilate into doing what they wanted because he didn't see the point himself.
The rest of the bible story regarding what the crowd did or said sounds, frankly, like bullshit written by angry zealots with an axe to grind.
You see the same sort of astroturfed "popular will" bullshit today in the media. I don't believe it now and so I don't believe it then.
Nobody has yet given a good explanation why the Romans should get a pass.
I still believe that it's the early Catholic Church that was uncomfortable with their predecessor's roles in the story shifting blame to the foreigner jews.
Not that the jewish clergy weren't to blame for their murderous demands.
But blaming all jews and letting all the Romans off is bullshit.
Well, I already corrected you on your claim of a conflict with the high priests, yet you continue to use "sounds like" to dismiss the Bible. That is fine, you aren't a believer and it appears you haven't taken the time to research secular history/Biblical account that much, that is ok, I don't expect you to take it seriously.
That said, this isn't a game of absolutes, nobody is saying "ALL Jews who resided there" when the Jews are condemned for this action. It was instigated by those in charge, pushed by the Jewish leaders as you mentioned, the crowd was riled up and they made the choice. Regardless, the deed was done, the Blessing of Kings ended, the Temple was destroyed and the Jews were cursed into slavery by the Babylonians.
Now these Jews of the Bible are not blessed as the ones in modern day claim they are. They aren't even supported by this claim Biblically as I have described, they were 1/12th of the tribes of Israel and they already played their part and were punished. If one is a true descendant of Judah, and they denounce Christ, and follow the Talmud, they are not of God in any way shape or form because to be "Israel", as the Bible speaks, is to be those who accept Christ (Galatians 3:16-29), not some false claim of linage which provides them a special "Deny Christ, go straight to heaven" card, and certainly not some claim of land ownership to which they obtained via trickery, Usury and Murder through the world wars, purchase of Israel, and the decimation of Palestine's previous residences to claim their holy land grab.
As for the whole "blood and DNA" thing which suggests they are not really even of that lineage, I haven't put heavily into it, it may be true, it may not, it really doesn't matter because the basis for who are of Christ and who are not is simply their acceptance of Christ and modern Jews do not accept him and that is all that is needed to establish modern day position on the issue.
As for the Romans getting a Pass? Well.. I don't think anyone absolves them of being a part, but as I said you seem to be going on a huge stretch to try and dismiss the main culprit here to which the entire prophecy of Christ centers on. Everything that happened was foretold, symbolized, would happen. I don't defend Romans for what they did, I merely point as you acknowledge, that it wasn't their plan, their idea, and it wouldn't have happened without those who put it into motion and saw it through. Trying to blame Romans at this point is typical Jewry to absolve responsibility. I mean, your positions is a bit absurd in its gymnastics to try and focus blame on the Romans rather than place it where it really lies.