Alpha Protocol - Spy ARPG

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Alpha Protocol - Spy ARPG

Post by WhiteShark »

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Useful tweaks: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Alpha_Protocol
Bugs: https://alphaprotocol.fandom.com/wiki/A ... tocol_Bugs

For the record, I use ARPG simply to mean 'action RPG' and I classify just about any realtime RPGish game under this label, whether it be a realtime DRPG, a diablolike, or a third person shooter RPG. No store link because the license for the music expired so it's no longer sold. I'm sure you can find it somewhere if you're interested.

This game is very consoley. Navigating menus is confusing because you must select the item you want, then click the select button in the bottom right, and exiting the menu is done with right click or some other button rather than escape. The mouse controls for the hacking minigame are terrible. There's mouse acceleration that cannot be disabled. The default FOV is 60 and changing it with ini edits breaks cutscenes. There's no jump button, so jumping is accomplished by pressing the interact button at prescribed locations. There's also no climbing aside from ladders or leaping over waist-height barriers without prompting locations. It's a cover shooter, so you can also press the interact button to glue yourself to a wall.

Levels are pretty linear. You may have several different routes to get through one room or small area, but you still must go through areas A, B, and C in order to reach area D. Sometimes once you've advanced an area, the door behind you locks, preventing you from even backtracking.

There are no attributes. Leveling up gets you points to spend on upgrading your skills. Skills go from rank 0 to 15, though only three skills are allowed to exceed rank 10. Each rank gets you a passive bonus, an active ability, or improves an active ability. All the skills are essentially combat-focused except Stealth and Sabotage; there are no speech skills.

Shooting without aiming is extremely inaccurate. Guns gain accuracy the longer you hold the aim button without moving. Even moving the reticle around when aiming with assault rifles causes them to lose accuracy, so you have to hold it steady on one target. Accuracy can be improved with gun upgrades and possibly skill upgrades. There only seem to be four guns in the game: pistol, SMG, shotgun, and rifle. You can buy better versions of these with higher stats, but fundamentally they are the same. There are also grenades, medkits, and other gadgets, as well as armor and armor upgrades. All of these, including ammunition, are found or bought with money you earn on missions.

Stealth is there but there's not much to it. Enemy bodies cannot be manipulated (or looted, except when they randomly drop some cash), and while they alert allies who find them, they disappear quickly. There's nothing to throw to draw enemy attention away from your position; even a stun grenade blowing up in front of an enemy didn't alert him. Pistol with a silencer equipped is the only gun you can use that won't alert everyone. If you sprint, every enemy within a mile will go on alert, totally at odds with the rather quiet sprinting audio.

The dialogue system is the selling point. In each conversation you get to choose from a handful of responses as usual -- but the catch is that there's a timer, so you must choose or your character will automatically default to the same type of response as you last picked and the conversation will continue. Conversations can raise or lower NPCs' individual approval rating of you, reveal new information, or offer an opportunity for a surprise attack. You'll need to figure out each NPC's preferences and cares to manipulate their approval rating as you see fit. I'm told that there is also a great deal of reactivity to dialogue and other choices, but I'm too early on to have seen more than a glimpse of that.

There are bugs. If you choose to 'reload from last checkpoint' rather than load manually, enemies disappear. Sometimes I get a black screen after loading with no solution but to restart the game. Sometimes when I hit the interact button to take cover, my character slides along the wall until he reaches what I assume is the prescribed position.

There are two mods for this game. All they do is change numbers in ini files to rebalance existing content as the authors please. I have no idea if either is at all worthwhile.
Last edited by WhiteShark on March 7th, 2023, 12:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Griffin »

I remember mostly liking Alpha Protocol even with all the flaws, it reminded me of the TV-show airing around the same time, Burn Notice. Shame that we never got the sequel, as gameplay could have been vastly improved...but another question is that would Obsidian been capable of improving it?
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Post by WhiteShark »

Griffin wrote: March 7th, 2023, 10:47
I remember mostly liking Alpha Protocol even with all the flaws, it reminded me of the TV-show airing around the same time, Burn Notice.
You know, I was subconsciously thinking the same thing. I watched about a season of that with my step-sister. I got tired of the formula but the premise and general atmosphere were pretty good. And yeah, so far I'm enjoying the game itself despite my rather brutal QRD in the OP. It is linear (in level design) and clunky and buggy (I'm writing this post because of another blackscreen), but the story is neat, the dialogue is fun, and I can't help but enjoy sneaking around doing spy stuff. Gameplay highlight for me was activating the invisibility skill and then using stealth takedowns on two guards in quick succession... to their faces.
Griffin wrote: March 7th, 2023, 10:47
Shame that we never got the sequel, as gameplay could have been vastly improved...but another question is that would Obsidian been capable of improving it?
Most of the gameplay problems are consolitis, so I don't imagine anything would have been improved unless it magically became a PC-focused release.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

FYI, saving in this game is very buggy, especially autosave.
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Post by agentorange »

The game does have a pretty astonishing amount of variance in how the story can play out, as well as how all the attitudes/fates of the many characters can change. There were parts of the story that I was sure were set in stone, only to find out later that they can be changed through some very specific choices--similar to Planescape Torment. Of course, all the focus on that stuff was clearly done at the sacrifice of other elements of the game (I might be giving Obsidian too much credit here). I didn't find the game to be aggravatingly bad at any point, but it is lackluster as can be. I think I mitigated some of the frustration that PC players had because I used a PS3 controller (I also remember there was a list of things that could be changed in one of the ini files to make the character movement less jittery), but of course that doesn't fix the fundamentally poor shooting and stealth mechanics.

One of my favorite things about the game was the time limited dialogue choices. I always appreciate when games use time limiting mechanics because it's one of the few things that can really build a physical sense of tension and make you feel like your choices are irreversible. It's also something that only video games can do, since you can't really have time limits in a book or movie, and I tend to think a given medium should try to make use of its unique strengths. Shame that I don't think I've seen a single other game do something like it.
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Post by Roguey »

agentorange wrote: March 7th, 2023, 12:05
One of my favorite things about the game was the time limited dialogue choices. I always appreciate when games use time limiting mechanics because it's one of the few things that can really build a physical sense of tension and make you feel like your choices are irreversible. It's also something that only video games can do, since you can't really have time limits in a book or movie, and I tend to think a given medium should try to make use of its unique strengths. Shame that I don't think I've seen a single other game do something like it.
Witcher 2 and 3 have a handful of places where you have to make a decision while being timed. Just not all the time when urgency isn't necessary.
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Post by wndrbr »

Best way to play Alpha Protocol is to ignore stealth and bigger guns, and just pump all skillpoints into Melee (for trash mobs) and Pistols (for bossfights). Equip your best armor, buy a bunch of EMP grenades (or whatever was the name of an item that allowed you to skip hacking minigames), and then proceed to beat your enemies with your fists. Bonus point is that melee is considered non-lethal, which means less children will end up growing up without fathers.
agentorange wrote: March 7th, 2023, 12:05
One of my favorite things about the game was the time limited dialogue choices. I always appreciate when games use time limiting mechanics because it's one of the few things that can really build a physical sense of tension and make you feel like your choices are irreversible. It's also something that only video games can do, since you can't really have time limits in a book or movie, and I tend to think a given medium should try to make use of its unique strengths. Shame that I don't think I've seen a single other game do something like it.
I don't know any other real game that regularly did it besides AP. The Witcher 2 and 3 had maybe two or three instances where you're forced to make a decision while under time constraints. Telltale's and Quantic Dream's "games" do that kind of thing regularly.
Last edited by wndrbr on March 7th, 2023, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2023, 11:58
FYI, saving in this game is very buggy, especially autosave.
As far as I can tell, saving and autosave work just fine. It's loading that routinely fails. Everytime I die and reload, I get a black screen regardless of whether I loaded from a manual save or an autosave, but if I close the game and reopen it, both work just fine.

EDIT: AHA, I think I've found a workaround. When I die, instead of picking either load option, I exit out to the main menu and then load from there. Worked just now without restarting the whole game.
Last edited by WhiteShark on March 7th, 2023, 12:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WhiteShark »

wndrbr wrote: March 7th, 2023, 12:25
Best way to play Alpha Protocol is to ignore stealth and guns, and just pump all skillpoints into Melee (for trash mobs) and Pistols (for bossfights). Equip your best armor, buy a bunch of EMP grenades (or whatever was the name of an item that allowed you to skip hacking minigames), and then proceed to beat your enemies with your fists. Bonus point is that melee is considered non-lethal, which means less children will end up growing up without fathers.
I'm already regretting not picking Melee as one of my specializations. I really strongly considered it but then went with Sabotage instead. Right now I'm doing a mission that starts with no gear and a fistfight and boy oh boy did I wish I had more points in Melee.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: March 7th, 2023, 12:30
As far as I can tell, saving and autosave work just fine
https://alphaprotocol.fandom.com/wiki/A ... tocol_Bugs

[edit]
Woops, yeah, you're right. Still should read the link though.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Thanks, I hadn't seen this yet. I put the link in the OP.
bug list wrote:
The results window at the end of a mission displays a large amount of credits (21000, for example) but gives you substantially LESS than the amount displayed (instead of 21000, it will give you 210 or 2100, again, for example). No known fix as of yet.
This explains why I couldn't gather enough cash to afford the three star pistol before the Saudi Arabia missions ended and I lost access to it in the shop. :mad:
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Post by BlueMemphis »

Have fond memories of this game despite its issues, true diamond in the rough. Shame it never get a sequel because some plot threads felt like they were setting up for future games only to never go anywhere.

Main theme also stuck with me for being decent and suits the moment in game where it is played damned well.



WhiteShark wrote: March 7th, 2023, 09:04
I'm told that there is also a great deal of reactivity to dialogue and other choices, but I'm too early on to have seen more than a glimpse of that.
You haven’t beat this game at least 5 times already? Then yeah you in for a ride, even the order in which you do missions can have a significant story impact.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

I recall so-called video game journalists painting it as a mediocre mass effect clone at the time which likely really hurt sales.
The games aren't even similar beyond shooting things and being an RPG.
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Post by wndrbr »

I think what really hurt sales were poor production values - bad animations, bugs, jank, and the awful feel of ranged combat. And, if I remember correctly, fairly poor marketing campaign that didn't really focus on AP's main selling point, and instead chose to sell the game as some Call of Duty-type shooter.

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Post by rusty_shackleford »

wndrbr wrote: March 7th, 2023, 13:54
I think what really hurt sales were poor production values - bad animations, bugs, jank, and the awful feel of ranged combat. And, if I remember correctly, fairly poor marketing campaign that didn't really focus on AP's main selling point, and instead chose to sell the game as some Call of Duty-type shooter.

Going to guess a combination of Sega not knowing how to market a western RPG & publishers in general believing more traditional RPGs were on their way out at that point therefore emphasizing the action aspect.
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2023, 13:42
I recall so-called video game journalists painting it as a mediocre mass effect clone at the time which likely really hurt sales.
The games aren't even similar beyond shooting things and being an RPG.
They do actually look pretty similar at first glance, both because of the graphics and camera perspective. The starting area in the medical ward reminded me strongly of the opening to Mass Effect 2, which came out a mere five months prior, and the skills UI looks like that of Mass Effect 1. Journalists are still on the shortlist for the Day of the Rope, but I can see how a typically cursory examination would lead them to that conclusion.
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Post by agentorange »

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This describes game journalists, but instead of boss baby it's whatever popular game they last played.
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Post by WhiteShark »

BlueMemphis wrote: March 7th, 2023, 13:35
You haven’t beat this game at least 5 times already? Then yeah you in for a ride, even the order in which you do missions can have a significant story impact.
I'm much further along now and yeah, I can definitely see how things could have gone differently, though I suppose I won't know for sure unless I replay it.

I completed all the missions in Rome, choosing to save Madison in the final one. I agonized a bit over that choice but, having already given my word to protect her, I felt I could not do otherwise. I am madly curious how things would have played out had I made gone the other way, but I'll have to find out on some other playthrough.

The subsequent boss fight with Marburg was pretty tough, but I found that if I went invisible, he would lose track of me until I attacked him directly, so I used that to buy time and kill all the adds before confronting him one-on-one. That was neatly taken care of by a single crit headshot followed by a 5-round chainshot to the cranium.

Now I'm in Taiwan doing the hotel mission. This is the first mission I've done where I felt compelled to EMP my way through some of the minigames, but I didn't bring very many and I don't think you get XP for EMPing them. The clip-the-circuits one in particular has twelve nodes. I don't have enough stimulants in my system to solve that within the time limit. I'm strongly considering loading my last safehouse save and buying the intel that makes the minigames easier, something I have not needed to do up til now.

I think if I do a second run I'm going to try being a bit less agreeable. I've missed a few opportunities to blackmail and extort people now because I've gone the 'professional' route in those conversations. I think I just like being liked too much and with the dialogue timer I'm more likely to default to that. It truly is an excellent dialogue system. My only gripe is that sometimes I interpret the keyword in a different way than was intended, such as when I chose 'interested' in the first conversation about Madison not realizing that meant 'interested (romantically)'. I wonder if symbols or a keyword-symbol pair would have been clearer.
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Post by WhiteShark »

>carefully sneak into area
>shooting gallery of oblivious enemies ripe for the reaping
>step into position
>*BOOM* giant explosion alerts everybody
>"HEY THORTON, THE BOSS SENT SOME OF US AS BACKUP!"
>all the enemies start shooting at me
T-thanks...
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: March 8th, 2023, 05:23
>carefully sneak into area
>shooting gallery of oblivious enemies ripe for the reaping
>step into position
>*BOOM* giant explosion alerts everybody
>"HEY THORTON, THE BOSS SENT SOME OF US AS BACKUP!"
>all the enemies start shooting at me
T-thanks...
There's quite a few forced combat areas that feel very out of place.
Also difficult if you aren't ready to handle them because you thought you could play through the game as a stealth-guy exclusively.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Also, it's a good example of why I don't support lumping weapon skills into regular skills in skill-based RPGs but rather separating them similar to say, Age of Decadence:
Image
Unless the game truly can be completed without combat, you're just giving a false impression that you can avoid picking a combat skill. That's not to suggest some choices shouldn't be better than others, but to give the implication that you can build a character that ends up being non-viable(rather than just sub-par) isn't very good design. If you don't have the correct gun skill in AP, Michael handles his gun like he has Parkinson's disease.
Also, the skill system should match the game itself: Would it make sense for an asset like Michael to be unable to handle a weapon to some degree?

Ironically, AoD is one of those games that can be completed without combat. Go figure.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Well this is mega gay. My mission objectives bugged out such that I am locked into the next area while the """next""" objective is somehow still in the previous area. Have to restart the whole mission. Thankfully this is the first time this has happened. I really need to be more diligent about making my own saves at each checkpoint, but since the autosave generally works, I've been lazy.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: March 8th, 2023, 07:59
Well this is mega gay. My mission objectives bugged out such that I am locked into the next area while the """next""" objective is somehow still in the previous area. Have to restart the whole mission. Thankfully this is the first time this has happened. I really need to be more diligent about making my own saves at each checkpoint, but since the autosave generally works, I've been lazy.
@Roguey :smug:
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Post by Roguey »

Yeah, Obsidian was so inept at understanding Unreal they couldn't figure out how to let you go back through a Load New Area door (and of course the Point of No Return doors have no particular marking letting you know you won't be able to come back).
WhiteShark wrote: March 8th, 2023, 03:23
I wonder if symbols or a keyword-symbol pair would have been clearer.
Something to understand about AP - left is always "suave", top is always aggressive, right is always professional, regardless of what keyword is given. Make choices depending on what stance you want for that situation, not what the keyword says.
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Post by Atlantico »

It's a top-tier ARPG imo, I had a blast playing it and don't recall running into any gamebreaking bugs. It's not a top-tier gameplay-wise, but story, look and feel and spirit of the game is top-tier.

It took me a couple of attempts to start playing the game because the first level/mission is so bland and generic it really is nothing like the rest of the game. It's a strange way to start a game like this, and nearly put me off playing it. I understand that you have to start out with a fairly "normal" setting before going down the rabbit hole, but that was a very generic first level/mission.

Alpha Protocol was one of Obsidian's good games, but maligned by bad reviews and popamole normies who thought it was just a really bad COD clone. Which is forgiveable considering the first level/mission.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Roguey wrote: March 8th, 2023, 12:09
Yeah, Obsidian was so inept at understanding Unreal they couldn't figure out how to let you go back through a Load New Area door (and of course the Point of No Return doors have no particular marking letting you know you won't be able to come back).
I started picking them out based on placement alone so that I could be sure I didn't miss any secondary objectives before I moved on.
Roguey wrote: March 8th, 2023, 12:09
Something to understand about AP - left is always "suave", top is always aggressive, right is always professional, regardless of what keyword is given. Make choices depending on what stance you want for that situation, not what the keyword says.
Thanks, didn't realize this. Only towards the end did I start noticing that the bottom right always seems to correspond to the 'extra information' option. Wish the game just outright told you the layout.

I find it funny that Heck sends you emails about real life (((banker))) conspiracies etc., clearly intended to sound farfetched and add to his 'lunatic' persona, while the whole game is literally about evil people conspiring to do evil things.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Whew, finished just now. My ending stuff:
► Show Spoiler
I came away with the feeling that I was missing out on possibly a large chunk of the story. That's probably intentional. It was hinted that even Halbech was working for somebody else, but if that was really the case, I never found out who. G22 remained something of an enigma. Albatross said something about maintaining the global status quo, but I'm not sure that's all there was to them. I'm especially disappointed that I only got to see Sis in a couple of missions, of which one was merely dialogue. I was hoping she would become a long-term contact, but maybe it's because I didn't meet her until the penultimate operation.

Bugs were annoying to the end. During the final mission there was a segment where I was supposed to protect an NPC for a certain length of time, but when the timer started, neither the enemies nor my ally aggro'd on each other, so I decided to just wait out the clock. Wrong move, apparently, because when it hit 0:00 I was informed that the mission had failed. The actual objective turned out to be 'kill X enemies', not 'defend NPC for X minutes'. I also had a totally random crash during the final stretch.

All in all, despite the bugs, consolitis, and mediocre gameplay, I really enjoyed it. The story was fun and the reactivity unparalleled. NPCs were still referencing decisions I made from the beginning of the game even at the very end and it had real effects, too. It's a real shame we never got anything like this but with better gameplay. I'm definitely putting this on the 'games to replay eventually' list.
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Post by BlueMemphis »

Glad you enjoyed it, warts and all, if there was ever an obsidian game that actually needed a remaster it should have been Alpha Protocol.
WhiteShark wrote: March 8th, 2023, 13:24
I was hoping she would become a long-term contact, but maybe it's because I didn't meet her until the penultimate operation.
Yup this is the reason and also why I said order in which you do missions matters quite a lot. Tbh the way your game was going I figured you were on course to go the Scarlett romance route but seems you didn't, which could be for a number of reasons.

I will say right now though to not get your hopes up with G22 as they were very much who i had in mind when i say some plot threads seem to be setting up future games and ain't resolved in a satisfying manner in this game.

As for Marburg and Mina you are indeed correct about that, I forget how many variations and routes there are for the ending as it has been many years but If memory serves me well then going after them would have prevented you from getting the ending you achieved here.
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Post by WhiteShark »

BlueMemphis wrote: March 8th, 2023, 23:43
Tbh the way your game was going I figured you were on course to go the Scarlett romance route but seems you didn't, which could be for a number of reasons.
I did, there was a scene with her right before the ending. Unless you mean that she was supposed to not disappear after the end, in which case yeah, I have no idea why that happened.
BlueMemphis wrote: March 8th, 2023, 23:43
If memory serves me well then going after them would have prevented you from getting the ending you achieved here.
Oh, yeah, that's true, they did make it sound like it was one or the other. In that case I (accidentally) made the right choice. I never really liked Mina anyway, though it would have been satisfying to finally kill Marburg.
BlueMemphis wrote: March 8th, 2023, 23:43
I will say right now though to not get your hopes up with G22 as they were very much who i had in mind when i say some plot threads seem to be setting up future games and ain't resolved in a satisfying manner in this game.
Fair enough. I did have a suspicion that this was a case where the game was being mysterious without substance. That's fine, it's better to not cleanly find the answers to everything, especially in a game about C&C and conspiracies.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Forgot to mention before but I found it hilarious how NPCs all spoke English even amongst themselves just so you as the player can overhear and understand them. Feels like a missed opportunity when they could have said that Mike is a polyglot, a common trait for spies. Then the player hearing everything in English would make sense as that would be Mike's understanding of it. If the character building were deeper, language skills could have been something you chose, offering real advantages in the relevant locations, but that were likely much more difficult to implement.
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