Rpgs with good psionics.

[WaterMage]

After playing thousands of hours as an wiz in kingmaker, elden ring, bg1/2, g1/2/3 and etc, I want some variation. I want to play as a psion.

Among all dnd games, I think that only Dark Sun Shattered lands and Wake of the ravager allows you to be a pure psionicist. This is obviously not counting mods. But in bg3, the psion mod didn't worked for me. In D&D-inspired games, KOTC2 has psionics and quite strong psionics.

Wizardry 6/7/8 has but I honestly never played. Underrail also has and is cool. Force field, mind control enemies, electrical blasts, cryokinesis, the psion has lots of cool stuff. In pilows of eternity, I honestly didn't liked much wizards. Too 4eish. But I liked a bit Cipher and Psions there. Could be better but enslaving others mind and reducing them to ashes was amazing.

Any more recommendations?

About kotc2 psion, it is very strong because it is based on 3.5e Psions, which are much more powerful than 2e. I 2ould say that they are stronger than wizards, mainly at high level. As they can spam their high level powers much more than wizards and resistance vs psionics is much rarer than vs spells. They can also augment their low-level psionics to an insane degree. Among retro clones, Machinations of the space princess has it and is very cool. Mind bolt at lv 1 is equivalent to a small cartridge pistol in damage. At lv3, becomes equivalent to a heavy machine gun. 3d4 vs d12 damage. In mmos, I only know wildstar Esper as a Psion. Among roguelikes, I love ADOM Mindcrafter.

More suggestions pls.

[rusty_shackleford]

Wizardry 6/7/8 has but I honestly never played.

You should. It forms a trilogy with save imports between all three, and Wizardry 8 is one of the best RPGs ever made.

[1998]

Underrail?

[J1M]

Describe good psionics.

"Fireball that isn't magic" isn't worthy of a separate category of magic, imo.

For example, broadly across genre fiction Arcane magic can change the physical properties of things or conjure items. Divine magic is centered around repairing living creatures and warding them from other magic. If psionics is to be considered on par with these broad categories, it should be definable in terms of its characteristic effects, not just that "it comes from your body somehow and it isn't magic even though it acts like magic".

[TKVNC]

Dragon Age: Origins?

The Spirit tree is pretty much that

[WaterMage]

Underrail?

Already mentioned. Quite cool.

Describe good psionics.

"Fireball that isn't magic" isn't worthy of a separate category of magic, imo.

For example, broadly across genre fiction Arcane magic can change the physical properties of things or conjure items. Divine magic is centered around repairing living creatures and warding them from other magic. If psionics is to be considered on par with these broad categories, it should be definable in terms of its characteristic effects, not just that "it comes from your body somehow and it isn't magic even though it acts like magic".

That is not the case. Just look games with both, Psionics and Arcane magic.

Being a Psion in Machinations of the Space Princess and a Magic user in Lamentations of the flame princess are vastly different gameplay experiences. A Druid is closer to a Wizard in D&D than a Psion in MotSP is to a Mage in LotFP. In Dark Sun, being a Preserver/Defiler or a Psionicist are vastly different experiences. In Pillars of Eternity, being a Cipher and a Wizard, vastly different experiences. In ADOM, playing as an Mindcrafter and as an Wizard/Necromancer vastly different.

Psionics are manipulation of internal energies. Arcane magic is manipulation of external energies.

[J1M]

Underrail?

Already mentioned. Quite cool.

Describe good psionics.

"Fireball that isn't magic" isn't worthy of a separate category of magic, imo.

For example, broadly across genre fiction Arcane magic can change the physical properties of things or conjure items. Divine magic is centered around repairing living creatures and warding them from other magic. If psionics is to be considered on par with these broad categories, it should be definable in terms of its characteristic effects, not just that "it comes from your body somehow and it isn't magic even though it acts like magic".

That is not the case. Just look games with both, Psionics and Arcane magic.

Being a Psion in Machinations of the Space Princess and a Magic user in Lamentations of the flame princess are vastly different gameplay experiences. A Druid is closer to a Wizard in D&D than a Psion in MotSP is to a Mage in LotFP. In Dark Sun, being a Preserver/Defiler or a Psionicist are vastly different experiences. In Pillars of Eternity, being a Cipher and a Wizard, vastly different experiences. In ADOM, playing as an Mindcrafter and as an Wizard/Necromancer vastly different.

Psionics are manipulation of internal energies. Arcane magic is manipulation of external energies.

I guess I'll first acknowledge the chance that I'm just being trolled since your response is basically to define psionics as "fireball that isn't magic".

If those experiences are as different as you describe, then it should be easy to define psionics based on its characteristic effects, as I have done with Arcane/Divine.

[Rigwort]

Tales of Maj'Eyal has psionics that have their own strange playstyle, the downside is that you'll need to unlock two of them. There're probably ways around that. They are probably some of the more interesting implementations, though I feel I'm not completely fulfilling what you want as it is a roguelike.

[WaterMage]

If those experiences are as different as you describe, then it should be easy to define psionics based on its characteristic effects, as I have done with Arcane/Divine.

Because is setting dependent. Just like traditional magic. In Athas - Dark Sun, Psionics is manipulation of "inner" forces. Magic of "outer" forces. GURPS has a similar approach. The effects in general are more focused about "mind" and "telekinesis" instead of the elementalism typically associated with magic. But sure, some "powers" are quite similar to spells. For eg, In MotSP, Mindbolt is very similar to LotFP magic missile. AD&D disintegrate as an spell and psionic are very similar.

In ADOM, if a Mindcrafter tries to use its mind powers in undead, it suffers a "backlash" from the negative energy of the undead as both minds are linked. The same wouldn't happen with normal spells, but since you target enemy direct mind, you can attack them behind walls for eg.

Tales of Maj'Eyal has psionics that have their own strange playstyle, the downside is that you'll need to unlock two of them. There're probably ways around that. They are probably some of the more interesting implementations, though I feel I'm not completely fulfilling what you want as it is a roguelike.

There are mods to unlock everything.

But among roguelikes, my favorite in ADOM Mindcrafter

[maidenhaver]

Machinations of the Space Princess

I looked this up, and now I want a crpg.

[WaterMage]

I looked this up, and now I want a crpg.

Me too. Hyperborea and MotSP are the retroclones that I want adapted into a CRPG the most.

Sadly we are getting stuff like Pathfinder: The Dragon's Demand in PF2e...

[rusty_shackleford]

Underrail?

Already mentioned. Quite cool.

Describe good psionics.

"Fireball that isn't magic" isn't worthy of a separate category of magic, imo.

For example, broadly across genre fiction Arcane magic can change the physical properties of things or conjure items. Divine magic is centered around repairing living creatures and warding them from other magic. If psionics is to be considered on par with these broad categories, it should be definable in terms of its characteristic effects, not just that "it comes from your body somehow and it isn't magic even though it acts like magic".

That is not the case. Just look games with both, Psionics and Arcane magic.

Being a Psion in Machinations of the Space Princess and a Magic user in Lamentations of the flame princess are vastly different gameplay experiences. A Druid is closer to a Wizard in D&D than a Psion in MotSP is to a Mage in LotFP. In Dark Sun, being a Preserver/Defiler or a Psionicist are vastly different experiences. In Pillars of Eternity, being a Cipher and a Wizard, vastly different experiences. In ADOM, playing as an Mindcrafter and as an Wizard/Necromancer vastly different.

Psionics are manipulation of internal energies. Arcane magic is manipulation of external energies.

I guess I'll first acknowledge the chance that I'm just being trolled since your response is basically to define psionics as "fireball that isn't magic".

If those experiences are as different as you describe, then it should be easy to define psionics based on its characteristic effects, as I have done with Arcane/Divine.

In my experience:
Psionics tends to overlap somewhat with enchantment/divination/abjuration, and if psionics are present, that tends to be their niche.

[UltraFan123]

The first Neverwinter Nights has an incredibly massive overhaul mod called "Player Resource Consortium" or PRC Mod for short. On top of the hundreds of new races, classes, and spells it adds, it also implements new systems like psionics.

Pretty much all psionic classes and prestige classes are added in the PRC mod, and it's still being worked on to this day since is a decade-long passion project. Recently they increased the maximum classes your character can have from 3 to 8.

[rusty_shackleford]

The first Neverwinter Nights has an incredibly massive overhaul mod called "Player Resource Consortium" or PRC Mod for short. On top of the hundreds of new races, classes, and spells it adds, it also implements new systems like psionics.

Pretty much all psionic classes and prestige classes are added in the PRC mod, and it's still being worked on to this day since is a decade-long passion project. Recently they increased the maximum classes your character can have from 3 to 8.

iirc NWN was based on 3e, and 3e had extensive psionics that were cut for 3.5e, too bad they didn't implement it by default

[The_Mask]

Underrail?

Pre-nerf patch, yes. Post-nerf patch... eh... maybe?

[rusty_shackleford]

Underrail doesn't have good psionics because it's just combat spells.

[edit]
For the same reason, I don't consider either of the pillows games to have 'good magic'. Magic should be useful in most areas of the game, not just combat.

[Tweed]

System Shock 2 /thread

[WaterMage]

People complain about Wizards being too OP in 3.0/3.5e because lets be real, they are much stronger than in 2e but people often ignore that Psions and CoDzillas are much stronger than Wizards. Imagine a Wizard with better BAB, self heal and powerful shapeshift...

Psions in KoTC2 are by far the best class.

For the same reason, I don't consider either of the pillows games to have 'good magic'. Magic should be useful in most areas of the game, not just combat.

Agreed. But :



Using water magic as an watershaper(mod) to solve a fire ship problem.

[rusty_shackleford]

Agreed. But :

I hate CYOA sections.

[WaterMage]

I also miss non-combat abilities in CRPGs.

When I talked about Machinations of the Space Princess, most of the Psi abilities are useful out of combat. For example, among the tier 1 Psi powers, bearing, beguile, knock, purify, mind message, etc. are only useful out of combat. Only Sleep, Telekinetic Shield, and Mindbolt are combat Psi powers. Zero offensive PSI powers at Tier 2. At tier 3, has a lot of powerful abilities that can be used in and out of combat, like flight, suggestion, and speed. But most abilities are only good out of combat. Same thing for Tier 4. In tier 5, some abilities are ridiculously broken for non-combat investigation scenarios like "Perfect Memory." In tier 5/6, Psions can do ridiculous broken stuff like disintegrate not only enemies in combat but also 5 m of matter, teleport light years away and "possess" an enemy body forever, heal radiation, heal amputees, and so on. At Tier 8, they can create a lifeform slave for them with "Tulpa" and mind slave an large crowd of people. At tier 9, Stasis and Time Stop are ridiculous broken.

So much cool stuff that you can do out of combat.  If you look into KoTC2, almost all of Psion powers are combat only > https://www.heroicfantasygames.com/FWE/ ... nicist.htm

Sure, KoTC2 is a combat focused game, MotSP is a more social focused game. I know that is hard to implement stuff like even a basic Charm in a CRPG.

Now that AI is being developed, Imagine an RPG where you could talk to AI controlled NPCs and use psi powers like Suggestion to give orders to them. That would be really cool.

[WaterMage]

Talking about non combat abilities, just imagine adapting this Psionic powers into a CRPG - From Machinations of the Space Princess - Page 130.





The first, probably in a very sandbox type of game like Mount & Blade could work. The second, could be implemented by allowing the PC to create another char.

[Toadknight]

I just want a game with good telekinesis stuff.

[WaterMage]

I just want a game with good telekinesis stuff.

Not an RPG but check Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy



_____________________

I recently finished Pillars of Eternity 2 : Deadfire in Path of the Dammed as a Psion(Cipher subclass). Also finished Knights of the Chalice 2 this year(didn't played in max difficult, KoTC2 is insanely hard) and my MC was a psion. Wizardry 6, I coudln't make the mapping mod to work and I have heard that the game is ludicrous hard to play without it, so I will wait more to play it. But seems like Psions there are great.

Please guys, mention more game with psionics.

Some years ago, I was obsessed with necromancy. Now it seems like I'm obsessed with psionics. 

I'm now playing Pillows 1. Honestly, I'm finding Pillars 1 much harder, but nothing like KoTC2. My favorite spell below. My marksman companion with the best enchantments in his arquebus deals roughly 60 damage, meaning that being hit by disintegrate deals the same damage as having six well-built marksmen with the best arquebus in the game hitting you at the same time.  And Arquebus is the highest damage ranged weapon in the game with a very slow reload time. One strategy that I'm using in my marksman against nasty encounters is to start the encounter with multiple arquebus and fire one shot. Switch to another, fire another shot, switch to another. Fire and switch to the first and only then, reload it.



The main differences over Pillows 2:

• No Psion subclass, so you can't use scrolls to buff your allies while constantly getting focus to use devastating spells. You must hit enemies to generate focus, and I don't like it.
• Low-level spells wouldn't scale with spell power and become useful at high levels. 
• Many abilities that you can use out of combat in Pillows 2, you can only use in combat. In Pillows 2, I can use stealth and use puppet master against a nasty enemy before even engaging in combat. This is not possible in Pillows 1.
• No way to use empower to quickly get a huge accuracy and damage increase or a huge amount of focus.
• The game level is overall lower. I'm close to the endgame; I haven't done the DLC yet. My level? 11. When I was close to endgame in Pillows 2, I was at lv 20. 
• No TB mode, so micromanaging your companions is harder. Mainly with their suicidal AI.
  (...)

[rusty_shackleford]

Deadfire is mechanically superior in most ways, especially the multiclassing & subclasses. I always found AD&D's multiclassing(not the human dual-classing) to be superior to any other implementation I've seen. Just pick two classes and create your own class from it.

A 'remaster' of the original game using deadfire would be neat, but likely would never happen.

[WaterMage]

About Pillows, interesting how Tim Cain made the best Pillows class, at 3:37



Cipher took heavily inspiration in WildStar Esper.

[WaterMage]

Tested the PRC mod for NwN1. Liked a bit but found too bugged in some parts. Eg - Some powers that I manifest do literally nothing. Also, no astral constructs... Is cool but could be better.

The image which I edited in the first post, is cuz I asked chatGPT if a 3.5e lv 20 necromancer went to fight a lv 20 psionicist, both with 10 million gold to build their army and after it to draw the battle. The details of battle bellow :

► Show Spoiler

This battle would depend heavily on the constructs and undead each side creates, the tactics employed, and the inherent strengths and weaknesses of their armies. Let’s break it down systematically:

Factors to Consider
Psionicist Army
Constructs

Constructs are incredibly tough because:
Immunity to mind-affecting effects, critical hits, poison, disease, paralysis, and many other conditions.
High hit points (based on size and material).
Often high Damage Reduction (DR) or immunity to non-magical weapons.
Types of Constructs:
A 20th-level Psionicist could create:
Astral Constructs using Astral Construct power with Boost Construct feat for customization.
Permanent constructs through crafting, such as Iron Golems, Clay Golems, and Effigies.
Psionic-infused constructs with abilities like energy resistance or enhanced combat skills.
Customization and Resources:
The Psionicist can tailor constructs to have energy immunity, flight, or other abilities.
Advantages of Constructs

High durability.
Customization via menu abilities for Astral Constructs.
High mobility if given flight or teleportation.
Resistance to environmental and magical hazards.
Disadvantages

Constructs often lack intelligence and follow basic orders. Tactical adaptability might be limited.
High creation costs for permanent constructs (crafting requires time and resources).
Vulnerable to disintegration or acid-based attacks if not properly prepared.
Necromancer Army
Undead

Undead are versatile and numerous because:
Animate Dead and Create Greater Undead allow the Necromancer to raise skeletons, zombies, and advanced undead like wraiths, specters, and vampires.
Undead Leadership (feat) could provide powerful intelligent undead followers (e.g., liches or death knights).
Spells like Desecrate and Unhallow bolster undead strength significantly.
Types of Undead:
Low-tier undead: Skeletons, zombies, ghouls.
High-tier undead: Vampires, liches, death knights, nightshades (using Epic rules or summoning spells).
Advantages of Undead

Quantity: A wealthy Necromancer can raise a massive undead horde.
Versatility: High-tier undead often have spellcasting abilities and intelligence.
Immunities: Undead are immune to mind-affecting effects, poison, paralysis, and many physical vulnerabilities.
Buffs: Spells like Magic Circle vs. Good, Mass Inflict Wounds, and Harm are devastating when used with undead.
Disadvantages

Vulnerable to turn undead and dispel magic.
Some higher-tier undead require a lot of control (e.g., control limits for Animate Dead are tied to caster level).
Lower-tier undead are fragile against high-damage area-of-effect attacks.
Head-to-Head Analysis

Psionicist Tactics
Astral Constructs: Rapid deployment of powerful, customizable constructs. Psionic feats and enhancements allow for specialized abilities (e.g., flight, energy resistance, or grappling).
Direct Combat Powers: Powers like Energy Ray, Energy Burst, and Disintegrate can target high-value undead leaders.
Battlefield Control:
Wall of Ectoplasm or Energy Wall to divide and disrupt undead hordes.
Time Hop or Ectoplasmic Cocoon to disable powerful undead temporarily.
Buffs: Powers like Vigor and Energy Adaptation keep constructs and the Psionicist durable.
Necromancer Tactics
Mass Numbers: Animate enormous armies of undead using Animate Dead and Desecrate. Wealth ensures the Necromancer can build portable altars for battlefield deployment.
High-Tier Undead Leaders: Intelligent undead (vampires, liches) can act independently, adding tactical flexibility.
Debuffs and Damage:
Spells like Mass Inflict Wounds, Energy Drain, and Control Undead weaken constructs and disrupt Psionicist strategies.
Darkness and Fog Cloud provide cover for advancing undead.
Fortification: Spells like Unhallow and Desecrate provide massive boosts to undead resilience.
Outcome Prediction

Psionicist Wins If:

Construct durability outweighs undead numbers.
They leverage energy resistance and damage reduction to nullify necromantic spells and attacks.
Intelligent constructs or battlefield control powers (e.g., Energy Wall, Time Hop) disrupt undead formations.
Necromancer Wins If:

Overwhelming numbers of undead wear down constructs faster than the Psionicist can replace them.
High-tier undead leaders outmaneuver or overpower constructs (e.g., a vampire with spellcasting abilities).
They use spells like Control Undead to turn Psionicist constructs against their creator.
Final Verdict

Psionicist Edge: Superior durability and flexibility through customized constructs and direct combat powers. Likely to dominate against low-tier undead but may struggle against high-tier threats.
Necromancer Edge: Sheer numbers and versatility of undead, especially with intelligent spellcasting undead leaders, could overwhelm the Psionicist in prolonged combat.
The battle would ultimately come down to preparation, battlefield conditions, and who strikes first!

This weekend, I will test Centauri Alliance. Is Bards tale but in space

[rusty_shackleford]

Perihelion for the Amiga has psionics. I've yet to play the game so I can't say anything beyond that.

[WaterMage]

Any good Amiga or C64 emulator for Linux?

[rusty_shackleford]

Any good Amiga or C64 emulator for Linux?

FS-UAE for Amiga, VICE for C64.

[Shady]

Elex 1 and join the Clerics faction. You will have force field, electrical blast, be able to use suggestion (mind control) npcs in certain dialogues to do your will. Literally checks all those boxes. Go full Intelligence build, melee sucks in that game cause of crappy hitboxes.