Elder Scrolls VI: The Reality and the Ideal

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

There is a mod available for Oblivion that does seem to transform it into a more action-adventure, roguelike game, as it claims in the description.

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/51484

However upon trying it for myself a few days back, it seemed to make the game 'too easy' if anything. But it's heart is in the right place and I felt it actually compliments the mechanics of Oblivion more, especially given the amount of loot there is. It's better to use weapons to their fullest extent, then drop or sell them for some cash rather than hoard them as I'm tempted to do in the unmodded version.

And speaking of mods, it sucks that nearly all of them seem to be exclusively on the Nexus. Which not only means you have to prostrate yourself amongst the fags to even download the stuff you want, but if ever there is an incident when servers are compromised- bye bye 95% of mod history.
somerandomdude
Posts: 471
Joined: Feb 8, '23

Post by somerandomdude »

One thing I recall about vanilla Oblivion was that damage with weapons scaled up very poorly the higher the enemy tiers got. It became an effort in complete futility to even swing a melee weapon against the highest tier enemies, and you went to the mage tower and crafted some spells if you wanted to actually deal damage. Or, you did what any sensible person who really wanted to play melee did: you installed some mods to enhance the melee combat.

In Skyrim, attacking with weapons was too OP if you actually utilized optimal crafting methods.

Maybe in the next Elder Scrolls game they can work to find a balance somewhere between those 2.
User avatar
asf
Posts: 373
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Post by asf »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:41

If you were to borrow the combat of another game and put it into Skyrim, what game would it be?. Remember, if a system is too complex or requires fast reflexes, then the accessibility goes out the window. Skyrim can be played by literal grandmothers, can't say the same for games like Dark Souls for instance. The fun of modern Elder Scrolls games comes from their playability, and the ease of their mechanics. But as it turns out, the game could've been a lot better:

Hint: skyrim is a piece of shit
User avatar
NEG
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 157
Joined: Feb 3, '23

Post by NEG »

Elder Scrolls: Wakanda is a big skip for me.

TES should be a roguelike spanning the whole of Tamriel at this point, but Todd decided to turn the franchise into the short bus of RPGs, so here we are.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

NEG wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:00
Elder Scrolls: Wakanda is a big skip for me.

TES should be a roguelike spanning the whole of Tamriel at this point, but Todd decided to turn the franchise into the short bus of RPGs, so here we are.
This hate for modern ES titles is unwarranted. There really isn't a game like Oblivion and Skyrim, the kind of sandbox both provide is unique among RPGs (or action-adventures, however you'd like to classify them as). They evidently provide something that people want, otherwise they wouldn't have been so successful. A game like Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023, not at the production values people expect and the projected profits that shareholders expect.
User avatar
WhiteShark
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 1856
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Post by WhiteShark »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
This hate for modern ES titles is unwarranted. There really isn't a game like Oblivion and Skyrim, the kind of sandbox both provide is unique among RPGs (or action-adventures, however you'd like to classify them as). They evidently provide something that people want, otherwise they wouldn't have been so successful. A game like Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023, not at the production values people expect and the projected profits that shareholders expect.
Neither uniquness nor commercial success have any relation to quality. The masses love all sorts of garbage and unique trash is still trash.
The International Jew wrote:
The public taste, like every other taste, craves what is given it most to feed upon. Public taste is
public habit. The public is blind to the source of that upon which it lives, and it adjusts itself to
the supply. Public taste is raised or lowered as the quality of its pabulum improves or
degenerates. In a quarter of a century, given all the avenues of publicity like theater, movie,
popular, song, saloon and newspaper -- in the meantime having thrown the mantle of contempt
over all counteractive moral agencies -- you can turn out nearly the kind of public you want. It
takes just about a quarter of a century to do a good job.
MadPreacher

Post by MadPreacher »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023, not at the production values people expect and the projected profits that shareholders expect.
Refutation: See Daggerfall Unity.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

MadPreacher wrote: April 1st, 2023, 00:11
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023, not at the production values people expect and the projected profits that shareholders expect.
Refutation: See Daggerfall Unity.
Refutation of the Refutation: Daggerfall Unity is fanmade and still niche.
MadPreacher

Post by MadPreacher »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 1st, 2023, 01:35
Translation: I'm a retard that can't ever be wrong, so I have to move the goal posts to win.
Fixed for accuracy. You made the claim that Daggerfall couldn't be made today. I refuted that with Daggerfall Unity being made today. You never specified that it had to be a AAA game studio not an indie one.
User avatar
GhostCow
Posts: 1514
Joined: Feb 3, '23

Post by GhostCow »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 1st, 2023, 01:35
MadPreacher wrote: April 1st, 2023, 00:11
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023, not at the production values people expect and the projected profits that shareholders expect.
Refutation: See Daggerfall Unity.
Refutation of the Refutation: Daggerfall Unity is fanmade and still niche.
You're making the wrong argument here. You should have gone with "Daggerfall Unity does not meet the production value criteria".
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

MadPreacher wrote: April 1st, 2023, 02:56
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 1st, 2023, 01:35
Translation: I'm a retard that can't ever be wrong, so I have to move the goal posts to win.
Fixed for accuracy. You made the claim that Daggerfall couldn't be made today. I refuted that with Daggerfall Unity being made today. You never specified that it had to be a AAA game studio not an indie one.
You're making the Anti-Oblivion/Skyrim crowd look bad by behaving in this manner. How petty and juvenile can one be?- oh wait, you're protestant, that answers my question.
MadPreacher

Post by MadPreacher »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 1st, 2023, 04:15
You're making the Anti-Oblivion/Skyrim crowd look bad by behaving in this manner.
I liked both Oblivion and Skyrim, so there goes your argument. I just like Daggerfall a lot more.
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 1st, 2023, 04:15
How petty and juvenile can one be?
I wouldn't know since you're the expert at it.
User avatar
Emphyrio
Posts: 2092
Joined: Mar 21, '23

Post by Emphyrio »

Today I heard a rumor from a guy who would know that Bethesda is not working on TES VI at all, supposedly because they're bored with the setting. They might be willing to license the setting but they have no interest in developing it in-house. I don't know if this is trustworthy information but it sounds like a real possibility.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

I find that hard to believe, that's like Nintendo being bored of producing Mario games. But IF that's true, I'm actually more excited to see what comes out of it. That means less of Bethesda's trademark jank, for one thing. And the possibility of a brand new engine being used.
User avatar
Emphyrio
Posts: 2092
Joined: Mar 21, '23

Post by Emphyrio »

Well Valve got bored of making half life games. Bethesda is a clubhouse with guys who have been part of the club for a long time.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

They never got bored of Half-Life, in fact it's been revealed over the years that there were many attempts at developing a Half-Life 3 but all of them fell apart for one reason or another. It's not like they never started work on it whatsoever because of lack of interest.

I think Bethesda has done all they can with their existing engine, and if they want to truly provide a next-gen Elder Scrolls experience, it will require new tools and a fresh new vision for how to build upon the open world format they have. The last thing the company and it's new owners want is to pull a Disney Star Wars and kill the golden calf by making it overly derivative and old hat.
User avatar
NEG
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 157
Joined: Feb 3, '23

Post by NEG »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
This hate for modern ES titles is unwarranted.
Butthurt detected. I've never liked them. It's called personal preference.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
There really isn't a game like Oblivion and Skyrim
There isn't really anything like a rectal exam, but I don't think I'd enjoy that either. If you would, to each his own.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
A game like Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023
They used to say the same thing about turn-based RPGs. Now Bauldur's Gate 3 is coming out and they're saying that RTwP is antiquated.

Regardless, so long as I can still play Daggerfall, or even Morrowind, I don't see why I should inflict a game I don't enjoy upon my senses.
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 8943
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Post by rusty_shackleford »

A game like Daggerfall could be made today because many games are just procedurally generated crap with no goal or coherency.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

NEG wrote: April 3rd, 2023, 00:41
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
This hate for modern ES titles is unwarranted.
Butthurt detected. I've never liked them. It's called personal preference.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
There really isn't a game like Oblivion and Skyrim
There isn't really anything like a rectal exam, but I don't think I'd enjoy that either. If you would, to each his own.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 31st, 2023, 22:13
A game like Daggerfall simply can't be made in 2023
They used to say the same thing about turn-based RPGs. Now Bauldur's Gate 3 is coming out and they're saying that RTwP is antiquated.

Regardless, so long as I can still play Daggerfall, or even Morrowind, I don't see why I should inflict a game I don't enjoy upon my senses.
There's a point where personal preference becomes an accepted, contrarian meme of sorts. People often develop false opinions on games they've never played, just because one contrarian thinks he's God's gift to gaming when he dislikes one product when others adore it. I'm not going to lie, these aren't great games. But they are special and unique in their own right, and worth playing at least once.

If you didn't like it?, what can I say. But to say these are terrible games and are not worth playing is quite a stretch. There is a lot to like about both that isn't found in any prior installment, or most RPGs for that matter. Especially Oblivion's cozy high fantasy aesthetic. And as it turns out, you autistic Daggerfall fans may get your wish, as a spiritual successor is in development by the same devs. "Wayward Realms".
User avatar
NEG
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 157
Joined: Feb 3, '23

Post by NEG »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 3rd, 2023, 01:00
There's a point where personal preference becomes an accepted, contrarian meme of sorts.
Given that I've been on the Codex stating this same opinion since before Oblivion came out, I really don't think that has any bearing with me, true or false.
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 3rd, 2023, 01:00
If you didn't like it?, what can I say. But to say these are terrible games and are not worth playing is quite a stretch.
No, they are terrible games. They could have been better. Elements of them were made better before and after. And Oblivion and Skyrim both steal concepts from other CRPGs. But modern TES games just weren't as good because of who was in charge and who they're made for.

If you can really play through Oblivion and clap like a seal for it's plotline and dialog, ignoring how much better in every way games like Arcanum, or even Baldur's Gate are, you have some major issues in taste.

I can understand having a bit of fun with them if you don't think too hard about anything, but it requires active effort to ignore how dumb the writing and gameplay is.
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 3rd, 2023, 01:00
And as it turns out, you autistic Daggerfall fans may get your wish, as a spiritual successor is in development by the same devs. "Wayward Realms".
Cool, I'd never heard of it.

I don't think an Oblivion fan has room to call anyone autistic though lol.

Daggerfall is almost a roguelike. Hardly autistic, just good fun that's at once ambitious and humble enough not to try to be the Lord of the Rings with crap writing. A non-linear game where you can be anyone and do anything. Sounds like the selling point of Oblivion or Skyrim, but it actually delivers, and without the save the world chosen one baggage foisted on you from the start.
Last edited by NEG on April 3rd, 2023, 01:16, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 8943
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Post by rusty_shackleford »

Behead those who insult Oblivion or Todd Howard, deo volente.
somerandomdude
Posts: 471
Joined: Feb 8, '23

Post by somerandomdude »

What mods would you all recommend for Daggerfall, and please don't tell me vanilla in a TES game, I know better than that shit. A mostly vanilla experience would be OK.
User avatar
Tweed
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 1504
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Post by Tweed »

somerandomdude wrote: April 3rd, 2023, 01:20
What mods would you all recommend for Daggerfall, and please don't tell me vanilla in a TES game, I know better than that shit. A mostly vanilla experience would be OK.
https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/424
MadPreacher

Post by MadPreacher »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 17:08


You'll never see content like this in D*ggerfall.
Because Daggerfall requires one to have a brain while Skyshit doesn't. Biden also doesn't have a brain. What was your point again?
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

MadPreacher wrote: April 5th, 2023, 17:30
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 17:08


You'll never see content like this in D*ggerfall.
Because Daggerfall requires one to have a brain while Skyshit doesn't. Biden also doesn't have a brain. What was your point again?
Ah yes, as high an IQ as Rick and Morty fans no doubt. "You just gotta understand the subtlety, man!". Soygerfall is overrated shit.
MadPreacher

Post by MadPreacher »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 18:28
MadPreacher wrote: April 5th, 2023, 17:30
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 17:08


You'll never see content like this in D*ggerfall.
Because Daggerfall requires one to have a brain while Skyshit doesn't. Biden also doesn't have a brain. What was your point again?
Ah yes, as high an IQ as Rick and Morty fans no doubt. "You just gotta understand the subtlety, man!". Soygerfall is overrated shit.
Oh yes, you're retarded expert opinion regarding a true sandbox vs. a theme park. Skyshit is definitely overrated for being a game and a theme park ride in a very small theme park. Let's compare map sizes shall we? Daggerfall is 100,413.6 square miles and Skyshit is 22 square miles.

Enjoy your Disknee Land.
User avatar
KnightoftheWind
Posts: 1527
Joined: Feb 27, '23

Post by KnightoftheWind »

MadPreacher wrote: April 5th, 2023, 19:01
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 18:28
MadPreacher wrote: April 5th, 2023, 17:30


Because Daggerfall requires one to have a brain while Skyshit doesn't. Biden also doesn't have a brain. What was your point again?
Ah yes, as high an IQ as Rick and Morty fans no doubt. "You just gotta understand the subtlety, man!". Soygerfall is overrated shit.
Oh yes, you're retarded expert opinion regarding a true sandbox vs. a theme park. Skyshit is definitely overrated for being a game and a theme park ride in a very small theme park. Let's compare map sizes shall we? Daggerfall is 100,413.6 square miles and Skyshit is 22 square miles.

Enjoy your Disknee Land.
Imagine measuring a game's quality by the size of it's map, this is 70 IQ logic right here. Yeah the map is big, but the game's terrible which makes the map not worth exploring. "Oh look, another cookie cutter town, well at least it's big!". Skyrim may be smaller, but it fills the space up with more interesting scenery, and things to actually do. Daggerfall is a tech demo of a game, not an actual product that should be played.
MadPreacher

Post by MadPreacher »

KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 21:42
MadPreacher wrote: April 5th, 2023, 19:01
KnightoftheWind wrote: April 5th, 2023, 18:28


Ah yes, as high an IQ as Rick and Morty fans no doubt. "You just gotta understand the subtlety, man!". Soygerfall is overrated shit.
Oh yes, you're retarded expert opinion regarding a true sandbox vs. a theme park. Skyshit is definitely overrated for being a game and a theme park ride in a very small theme park. Let's compare map sizes shall we? Daggerfall is 100,413.6 square miles and Skyshit is 22 square miles.

Enjoy your Disknee Land.
Imagine measuring a game's quality by the size of it's map, this is 70 IQ logic right here. Yeah the map is big, but the game's terrible which makes the map not worth exploring. "Oh look, another cookie cutter town, well at least it's big!". Skyrim may be smaller, but it fills the space up with more interesting scenery, and things to actually do. Daggerfall is a tech demo of a game, not an actual product that should be played.
Skyshit has copy pasted towns and dungeons. Never mind the entire series of quests being retarded. Imagine arguing for Disknee Land where you're being led by the nose via quest markers to experience everything the theme park has to offer.
Post Reply