Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

[Humbaba]

The most cringe part of the lore is easily the God Emperor.

Even more cringe are unironic imperiumfags. Granted, GW has been sending highly mixed signals when it comes to the Imperium for decades, simultaneously describing it as "the cruelest regime imaginable" and portraying Robot Gullyman as an actual christ figure.



Hard to blame the midwits for mistaking the Imperium for the good guys.

inb4 "BUT THEY ARE THE GOOD GUYS "

No.


-Humbaba

[Emphyrio]

Even more cringe are unironic imperiumfags. Granted, GW has been sending highly mixed signals when it comes to the Imperium for decades, simultaneously describing it as "the cruelest regime imaginable" and portraying Robot Gullyman as an actual christ figure.

It's difficult for the leftist writers to take seriously a setting that inherently justifies a trad-fascist worldview.

I was pleasantly surprised by Gothic Armada 2 because it didn't treat the setting as a campy joke.

[The_Mask]

Murderous, prideful, and feared by many, the Drukhari spread terror in the Imperium. How can a true son of Commorragh, Marazhai Aezyrraesh, tolerate being in the company of a human, even if it's a Rogue Trader? Find it out in our new companion article!

https://roguetrader.owlcat.games/news/en/28

[maidenhaver]

The most cringe part of the lore is easily the God Emperor.

Even more cringe are unironic imperiumfags. Granted, GW has been sending highly mixed signals when it comes to the Imperium for decades, simultaneously describing it as "the cruelest regime imaginable" and portraying Robot Gullyman as an actual christ figure.



Hard to blame the midwits for mistaking the Imperium for the good guys.

inb4 "BUT THEY ARE THE GOOD GUYS "

No.


-Humbaba

They're good insofar as they're the main character, and its only their perspective that matters. I hate the god emperor kinds of mary sue, and how they're always depicted as stoical, to the point he's stuck in a high seat. Reddit's version of god.

[Norfleet]

Hard to blame the midwits for mistaking the Imperium for the good guys.

Imagine not understanding that 40K isn't about good and bad guys, there are only bad and worse guys. I don't even know anything else about 40K and I know that.

[Humbaba]

It's difficult for the leftist writers to take seriously a setting that inherently justifies a trad-fascist worldview.

Ffs, the Imperium is neither "trad" nor fascist, it is literally the medieval HRR IN SPACE i.e. a feudal shithole akin to many irl empires. It's not totalitarian either, because the Imperium has barely any control over a large number if not most of its planets and space marines are a state within a state (see Varangains, Janissaries, Streltsys etc.).

People take a look at Cadia and go WOW COOL MILITARISTIC AUTHORITARIAN SOCIETY when Cadia is literally the exception and unusually highly militarised because of its strategic location. Most planets are dystopian hive worlds and many others are stuck in the stone age.

They're good insofar as they're the main character, and its only their perspective that matters. I hate the god emperor kinds of mary sue, and how they're always depicted as stoical, to the point he's stuck in a high seat. Reddit's version of god.

That makes them the protagonist and the protagonist doesn't have to be good. The Emperor is explicitly not a mary sue, since he's depicted as a massive asshole and space communist, whose grand vision utterly failed and who's been stuck in a really painful coma for ten thousand years. Again, midwits see le ebin golden god emprah and think WOW COOL GOLD MAN. 40k haters adopt this view uncritically and come to the conclusion that the setting is bad.



-Humbaba

[Luckmann]

I desperately need a way to rate posts retarded without interacting with them in any other way.

[rusty_shackleford]

I desperately need a way to rate posts retarded without interacting with them in any other way.

The reason we lack retarded ratings is specifically so you have to interact with them to call them retarded.

[maidenhaver]

They're good insofar as they're the main character, and its only their perspective that matters. I hate the god emperor kinds of mary sue, and how they're always depicted as stoical, to the point he's stuck in a high seat. Reddit's version of god.

That makes them the protagonist and the protagonist doesn't have to be good. The Emperor is explicitly not a mary sue, since he's depicted as a massive asshole and space communist, whose grand vision utterly failed and who's been stuck in a really painful coma for ten thousand years. Again, midwits see le ebin golden god emprah and think WOW COOL GOLD MAN. 40k haters adopt this view uncritically and come to the conclusion that the setting is bad.

No, there's no narrative, so they aren't protagonists. What's meant by Good is up to perspective, not objective moral truth. You're also lying to yourself if you think that a god emperor isn't a mary sue in a high chair. 40K is a setting that only gets worse the more that's explained, so ignoring all that dumb fluff shit's the only real option. It would have been better without aliens and superpowers.

[Luckmann]

I desperately need a way to rate posts retarded without interacting with them in any other way.

The reason we lack retarded ratings is specifically so you have to interact with them to call them retarded.

I know, but it's just so tiresome.

Even more cringe are unironic imperiumfags. Granted, GW has been sending highly mixed signals when it comes to the Imperium for decades, simultaneously describing it as "the cruelest regime imaginable" and portraying Robot Gullyman as an actual christ figure.



Hard to blame the midwits for mistaking the Imperium for the good guys.

inb4 "BUT THEY ARE THE GOOD GUYS "

No.


-Humbaba

Ffs, the Imperium is neither "trad" nor fascist, it is literally the medieval HRR IN SPACE i.e. a feudal shithole akin to many irl empires. It's not totalitarian either, because the Imperium has barely any control over a large number if not most of its planets and space marines are a state within a state (see Varangains, Janissaries, Streltsys etc.).

People take a look at Cadia and go WOW COOL MILITARISTIC AUTHORITARIAN SOCIETY when Cadia is literally the exception and unusually highly militarised because of its strategic location. Most planets are dystopian hive worlds and many others are stuck in the stone age.

They're good insofar as they're the main character, and its only their perspective that matters. I hate the god emperor kinds of mary sue, and how they're always depicted as stoical, to the point he's stuck in a high seat. Reddit's version of god.

That makes them the protagonist and the protagonist doesn't have to be good. The Emperor is explicitly not a mary sue, since he's depicted as a massive asshole and space communist, whose grand vision utterly failed and who's been stuck in a really painful coma for ten thousand years. Again, midwits see le ebin golden god emprah and think WOW COOL GOLD MAN. 40k haters adopt this view uncritically and come to the conclusion that the setting is bad.



-Humbaba

You're a retard.

[Luckmann]

They're good insofar as they're the main character, and its only their perspective that matters. I hate the god emperor kinds of mary sue, and how they're always depicted as stoical, to the point he's stuck in a high seat. Reddit's version of god.

That makes them the protagonist and the protagonist doesn't have to be good. The Emperor is explicitly not a mary sue, since he's depicted as a massive asshole and space communist, whose grand vision utterly failed and who's been stuck in a really painful coma for ten thousand years. Again, midwits see le ebin golden god emprah and think WOW COOL GOLD MAN. 40k haters adopt this view uncritically and come to the conclusion that the setting is bad.

No, there's no narrative, so they aren't protagonists. What's meant by Good is up to perspective, not objective moral truth. You're also lying to yourself if you think that a god emperor isn't a mary sue in a high chair. 40K is a setting that only gets worse the more that's explained, so ignoring all that dumb fluff shit's the only real option. It would have been better without aliens and superpowers.

I agree up until you call the God-Emperor a Mary Sue. The God-Emperor was never a self-insert of any kind, and was conceived as a spin on Frank Herbert's God-Emperor of Dune and the Mule of the Foundation Trilogy by Asimov. He didn't become le heckin' atheist superman until long, long after Priestley's conception, and the idea of him as a Mary Sue is entirely a consequence of things like the Horus Heresy book series, which has embedded itself in the setting as a demythologizing and capeshit-spawning cancer, cementing the transformation of WH40k into nu41k.

There's literally nothing wrong with the God-Emperor as originally conceived in the static narrative of the setting, namely as an icon of worship and an effectively absent central figure of a feudal structure that has collapsed in on itself, with a mythological past that was far less glorious than the legend it built. By Priestley's own statements, the Primarchs may or may not have been created by the Emperor, but they weren't five meter tall supermen, but mortal same as any space marine, and then the legend grew over time - and similarly, the Emperor was a supremely gifted psyker, but it was always hinted that the idea of him as this perfect being of light and good was a psychic projection he imposed upon those around him (i.e. for those familiar with Asimov, essentially the Mule).

At its core it's a timeline gone wrong, and the God-Emperor, insofar that he was an actual character at all (he wasn't conceived as such; he's a set-piece and a literary device by design, much like the Dark Age of Technology, the Primarchs, and more) was a tragic figure, not a Mary Sue, and the Imperium itself is absolutely 'good' in that it is the best humanity can do and have to offer, and that every concession made has been made in the interest of humanity because this is a universe in which this is the best we can do with the tools that we have - a common motif in the core material that influenced the setting to begin with, such as 2000 AD.

When it comes to Warhammer, we really need to institute a logic of reverse-release canonicity, where older sources hold a higher place in determining canon than newer pieces, because everything produced by James in the last decade has been an unmitigated disaster regarding everything that actually made the setting(s) good or even worthwhile to begin with.

[maidenhaver]

I don't know what trope he is, but he isn't good. 40K would be better without him and psychic powers.

[Luckmann]

I don't know what trope he is, but he isn't good. 40K would be better without him and psychic powers.

It wouldn't be 40k without an absentee ruler on a far-away planet, because his central impotency is fundamental to the feudal state the Imperium is (in WH40k)/was (in nu41k) defined by, as well as a central icon of worship, again fundamental to the entire motif and the motivations of people within the universe. The same is to a lesser degree true for psychic powers, but that is more complicated. You can't take out either without completely redefining almost every facet of the setting.

[Humbaba]

No, there's no narrative, so they aren't protagonists.

Every Black Library author on suicide watch rn.

You're a retard.

Nomodel opinion disregarded.



-Humbaba

[maidenhaver]

I don't know what trope he is, but he isn't good. 40K would be better without him and psychic powers.

You can't take out either without completely redefining almost every facet of the setting.

You can wave away most of it to make it better than 40K. The empire is so vast there's no way to control it, so he's just a glorified magical space fairy. He can be replaced by propaganda. To remove magic in space, we just have to assume the bureaucracy is this glacial force that seemingly moves without pattern or reason, yet accomplishes everything it needs to live another day. That's how the military works. No god emperor, no psychic powers.

[Norfleet]

I don't know what trope he is, but he isn't good. 40K would be better without him and psychic powers.

But he isn't really in 40K, anyway. He's just a plot device that exists, justifying the existence of interstellar travel and the setting, not any kind of character with agency. He doesn't actually wield his powers to do anything, unless he gets looted by orks.

[maidenhaver]

[The_Mask]

Gentlemen, we have a date:

[Vergil]

Why is Warhammer 40k so ugly? Genuine question.

[maidenhaver]

Why is Warhammer 40k so ugly? Genuine question.

It was hecking awesome and gothic and metal as fuck until they let tau in...

[gerey]

He's just a plot device that exists, justifying the existence of interstellar travel and the setting, not any kind of character with agency. He doesn't actually wield his powers to do anything, unless he gets looted by orks.

He's talked to various characters throughout the books. He appeared in front of Gaunt during the Sabbat Crusade, He talked to Cawl in one of his dreams, Guilliman had an audience with Him. The Living Saints are His presence made flesh, Saint Catherine listening and following His orders.

The Sororitas can perform miracles if their faith in Him is strong enough. The Burning Legion are His equivalent of daemons.

Plague Wars was the most blatant action He took in a long time, making Mortarion and Nurgle so terrified they fled the battlefield before He could get close to them.

Everyone is terrified of the God-Emperor. If He ever fully ascends to godhood it's pretty much game over for all the other factions.

When it comes to Warhammer, we really need to institute a logic of reverse-release canonicity, where older sources hold a higher place in determining canon than newer pieces, because everything produced by James in the last decade has been an unmitigated disaster regarding everything that actually made the setting(s) good or even worthwhile to begin with.

I disagree to a point. Modern interpretations of the God-Emperor have been good, making Him appear very eldritch and alien - I especially like that one bit where He's "talking" to Sanginious and every word He says conveys multiple meanings.

The Necron retcon was another good one - they went from bland, monolithic space terminators to a faction with actual characters, strife, disagreements, mysteries etc.

Then again, there's also a lot of retarded retcons - the whole of HH has been an unmitigated disaster, completely ruining the Primarchs. Dan Abnett ruined Ollanius Pius, the perpetuals are a shit idea, GW treating the Tau like Mary Sues (instead of the in-universe punching bag), all the girlbosses etc.

[maidenhaver]

Fucking mary sue.

[Norfleet]

He's talked to various characters throughout the books. He appeared in front of Gaunt during the Sabbat Crusade, He talked to Cawl in one of his dreams, Guilliman had an audience with Him. The Living Saints are His presence made flesh, Saint Catherine listening and following His orders.

The Sororitas can perform miracles if their faith in Him is strong enough. The Burning Legion are His equivalent of daemons.

Plague Wars was the most blatant action He took in a long time, making Mortarion and Nurgle so terrified they fled the battlefield before He could get close to them.

Everyone is terrified of the God-Emperor. If He ever fully ascends to godhood it's pretty much game over for all the other factions.

Yes, but all this does is make him roughly equivalent to gods of various settings. It doesn't make him a CHARACTER. He is a plot device invoked by ACTUAL characters.

[maidenhaver]

Dark Eldar, not this Droocarry bullshit.

[gerey]

Yes, but all this does is make him roughly equivalent to gods of various settings. It doesn't make him a CHARACTER. He is a plot device invoked by ACTUAL characters.

Part of your argument was that He never does anything with His powers.

But yes, I do agree that He's a plot device, but I also argue that he's a character, depending on what the plot requires - just like many other 40k character.

How does if feel to serve a dying Imperium, Loyalist?

Euphoric.

[maidenhaver]

Do Praetoreans still exist? Them and the Sisters are aesthetic as fuck. I don't think they or the Mordians survived, because GW increased the scale just so historical players couldn't kitbash guardsman armies. Fucking jews.

[The_Mask]

We want to acknowledge the confusion and frustration we heard after we announced our new runtime fee policy. We’d like to clarify some of your top questions and concerns:

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[agentorange]

God emperor is Christ who was never allowed to die. Because the sacrifice was never carried out through death, and humanity thought it was a better idea to turn their saviour into a tortured vegetable, humanity was never redeemed and is damned to suffer alongside their would be saviour forever. His purpose in terms of the fiction is to be the reason why humanity is trapped in a never ending nightmarish war. Trying to make him more of a "character" is retarded. Just 40k descending further into capeshit like every other long running setting.

[Kalarion]

God emperor is Christ who was never allowed to die. Because the sacrifice was never carried out through death, and humanity thought it was a better idea to turn their saviour into a tortured vegetable, humanity was never redeemed and is damned to suffer alongside their would be saviour forever. His purpose in terms of the fiction is to be the reason why humanity is trapped in a never ending nightmarish war. Trying to make him more of a "character" is retarded. Just 40k descending further into capeshit like every other long running setting.

I prefer the idea of the God-Emperor as Lucifer, post-end times. The universe of Warhammer 40K is, quite literally, hell. There is no longer a true God, as the Emperor and the rest of the damned were cast from His presence eons ago. Only whatever the Emperor can grasp and create out of the nigh-limitless (but only nigh-) reservoir of his will and spiritual might.

[gerey]

I'd argue that the setting is the equivalent of the Holy Triduum, only that the salvation of humanity in 40k has been put on hold because the period between the Emperor's death and true ascension would be so catastrophic and destructive the whole of mankind could be wiped out by the combined might of the various xeno races or subjugated by the Ruinous Powers.

Either that or more zealous and despairing worship is needed to push Him past the threshold into true godhood, with enough power to rival the four Chaos gods.