The Fallout 2 question

Segata · Post by **Segata** » February 20th, 2023, 14:11

Are you pro or anti-Fallout 2? Do the pop culture references ruin the game for you? the way it developed the world from FO1? What about the gameplay, the towns, the quests? Do you use FO2 as a counterpoint to defend yourself from accusations that you only like old games?

IMO there's half of a good game in there. Undeveloped beginning and late acts, solid middul act, expanded roleplaying, didn't mind as much the silliness, worse atmosphere than the original obviously. What about you?

NMNFND · Post by **NMNFND** » February 20th, 2023, 14:27

They truly fucked up making your game end if you kill your home town of Arroyo. It doesn't feel right.
When this fact was pointed out to me I knew FO2 became worse than FO1.

Tweed · Post by **Tweed** » February 20th, 2023, 14:39

I'm indifferent to the pop culture references, maybe because pop culture wasn't quite so fucking terrible then as it is now. The vaults as a social experiment was dumb, but I think they made it work, in fact it's one of the only things Bethesda managed to not completely fuck up (I said completely, FEV fault is fucking retarded) out of what little lore they bothered to keep. Okay opening act but kind of restrictive, great middle acts, and yeah it gets pretty weak towards the end. Fallout 1 is still the superior game, but I like both of them quite a bit.

Intelligent, talking deathclaws strained my suspension of disbelief, but Goris is a bro.

agentorange · Post by **agentorange** » February 20th, 2023, 14:40

Worse than Fallout 1 but still one of the greatest CRPGs ever made. Somewhere along the line it became fashionable to say its complete shit, probably because internet discourse has mutated into something where only extreme, abrasive opinions are allowed because they are what get the most responses.

wndrbr · Post by **wndrbr** » February 20th, 2023, 14:49

I like individual elements of Fo2, but somehow a full package manages to be less than the sum of its parts. Zaniness and lack of cohesion inbetween the different locations you visit was likely a major thing that influenced Fallout 3.

Absolutely agree that the middle act is the best part. BTW, the three fan-made expansions (Resurrection, Nevada and Sonora) all build on this "Fo2 middle act" thing where you are already strong enough so you don't get killed by a bunch of rats, but aren't quite OP yet so the exploration/questing is still fun and challenging. Nevada even has New Reno, complete with an opportunity to Yojimbo through multiple super complex gangster questlines for maximum XP.

Segata Sanshiro wrote: ↑ February 20th, 2023, 14:11
the way it developed the world from FO1

that's actually a very underrated thing about Fo2. Black Isle could've just made a run on the mill postapoc sequel about another vault dweller surviving in the wastes, fighting raiders and looting prewar dungeons, but they went further and made the series post-post-apocalyptic. Really enjoyed seeing how civilization grows again, people build settlements and form new governments. New Vegas further expanded on this idea, which I liked as well.

Roguey · Post by **Roguey** » February 20th, 2023, 15:14

Fallout 2 fixes some annoyances and has more ambitious quest design and more demanding combat than its predecessor, so it's a good lesson in why it's necessary to take a setting seriously.

GothGirlSupremacy · Post by **GothGirlSupremacy** » February 20th, 2023, 17:31

Horrigan is the best villain Fallout ever had.

Post by **rusty_shackleford** » February 20th, 2023, 17:33

Getting rid of the 'ask about' feature was a mistake. It wasn't required to progress the game which got rid of the worst part of the keyword parser, that is, guessing what the devs intended to progress the game. Being able to ask about various topics in the world is nice.
My guess is it was cut due to time constraints.

Lhynn · Post by **Lhynn** » February 20th, 2023, 18:00

Its alright, objectively worse than FO1 and new vegas but a good game overall.

Fargus · Post by **Fargus** » February 20th, 2023, 19:35

F1 is basic shit with primitive quests and a few memorable moments like The Glow exploration but thats it. If you already played it before all magic will be gone unless you're a fanboy.

F2 is a fun game through and through and very replayable.

Lhynn · Post by **Lhynn** » February 21st, 2023, 01:39

Fargus wrote: ↑ February 20th, 2023, 19:35
F1 is basic shit with primitive quests and a few memorable moments like The Glow exploration but thats it. If you already played it before all magic will be gone unless you're a fanboy.

F2 is a fun game through and through and very replayable.

Muh replayability.

Fallout 1 is a masterpiece when it comes to atmosphere and tone. The writing is sharp and on point, and everything you do seems to lead somewhere new and interesting, so many ideas explored in this game while remaining thematically consistent.

Fallout 2 is the longer cartoon based on the first game. The tone is all over the place, every location exists almost in a separate dimension and there is no real atmosphere to speak of.
It adds very little interesting to the setting, it takes away from it and squanders the good ideas from the first game.
Not a bad rpg mind you, it adds a lot of elements that mechanically make it a more enjoyable experience, gameplay wise.

SharkClub · Post by **SharkClub** » February 21st, 2023, 18:36

Fallout 1 is a tech demo. It walked so Fallout 2 could run.

Fargus · Post by **Fargus** » February 21st, 2023, 18:47

Fallout feels awesome when you blindplay it and don't know what to do. The world at first seems amazing and overwhelming in a good way. But it quickly falls appart. My second playthrough really left a sour taste.

An rpg that's only worth playing once and where you struggle to find anything to do after 16 hours is not such a great rpg. Especially when most of the quests are primitive and forgettable. There are many games that you can enjoy even if you know everything about them and Fallout just isn't one.

Lhynn · Post by **Lhynn** » February 21st, 2023, 19:01

Fargus wrote: ↑ February 21st, 2023, 18:47
An rpg that's only worth playing once and where you struggle to find anything to do after 16 hours is not such a great rpg.

Just kill yourself you retarded faggot, theres no redeeming your idiocy.

Fargus · Post by **Fargus** » February 21st, 2023, 19:07

Lhynn wrote: ↑ February 21st, 2023, 19:01

Fargus wrote: ↑ February 21st, 2023, 18:47
An rpg that's only worth playing once and where you struggle to find anything to do after 16 hours is not such a great rpg.
Just kill yourself you retarded faggot, theres no redeeming your idiocy.

Drink bleach, fanboy.

viata · Post by **viata** » February 21st, 2023, 19:26

The "every vault was an experimental project" killed the game for me. I prefer the first game just because of that.

Lhynn · Post by **Lhynn** » February 21st, 2023, 20:08

The second game brought a lot of retardation to the franchise, the world design was inferior and it felt like you were in the looney tunes sometimes.

Yeah, the first one isnt very replayable, but so what? Who says rpgs should be replayable? Which rpgs even are? The important thing is to be good the first time around. Also "I dont know what to do after 16 hours in", finish the fucking game imbecile.

viata · Post by **viata** » February 21st, 2023, 20:53

Lhynn wrote: ↑ February 21st, 2023, 20:08
Which rpgs even are?

Wizardry. I have played almost all versions.

Lhynn · Post by **Lhynn** » February 21st, 2023, 20:54

viata wrote: ↑ February 21st, 2023, 20:53
Wizardry. I have played almost all versions.

I find the repetition boring. But more power to you.

The_Mask · Post by **The_Mask** » February 21st, 2023, 21:29

Depends on why the RPG is strong. I've played Dark Souls with pretty much every build possible, except the poop tossing one, and I had a great time. Although Dark Souls has basically just 2 stories.

I'm replaying through Arthur, right now. The story isn't much different, but your story beats shape differently depending on whom you have around the Table.

So, *some* RPGs do have replayablity. Is it obligatory? No. In my opinion... no.

Eyestabber · Post by **Eyestabber** » February 21st, 2023, 21:52

The main issue with Fallout 2 is the horrible, horrible, ATROCIOUS early game pacing. Forcing sticks and peeshoters on the player is never a recipe for fun. Meanwhile Fo1 never suffered from this problem. I never took issue with the game's "zany" nature, but when I play a game I want to be doing my murders in a sensible, effective fashion ASAP. Fo2 is a serious case of "it gets better"™.

Acrux · Post by **Acrux** » February 21st, 2023, 23:35

I like them both! 8-)

Fargus · Post by **Fargus** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:02

Lhynn wrote: ↑ February 21st, 2023, 20:08
The second game brought a lot of retardation to the franchise, the world design was inferior and it felt like you were in the looney tunes sometimes.

Yeah, the first one isnt very replayable, but so what? Who says rpgs should be replayable? Which rpgs even are? The important thing is to be good the first time around. Also "I dont know what to do after 16 hours in", finish the fucking game imbecile.

Lhynndsey, you should relax. Take your meds.

I did finish it and i was disappointed considering how much people like you fap to this game. A 16 hour long game with 2-3 memorable quests. Impressive if you're a 90s kid who just bought his first rpg.

And why shouldn't rpgs be replayable? Replaying rpgs and finding out new things about them is one of the reasons why i loved oldschool rpgs so much. As it shows how much extra work the devs used to put into them. And the depth.

As for Fallout 2 inferior world design. Look at Vault City, NCR and New Reno as an example. How NCR uses shady tactics to weaken and annex Vault City. That includes planting undercover agent, stealing tech, hiring well organized raider gangs through criminal contacts like Bishop in New Reno and so on. Multiple towns connected with backstory and quests that shape their future, many characters are connected.

Its easy not to see the whole picture the first time you play the game. Also why replayability is good.

And not entire game is looney tunes just because you got triggered by talking deathclaws.

Master is an autistic covid blob of biomass that speaks like broken voice synthesizer and his dumbfuck supermutant army of marvel hulks are silly as hell. This is a game with zombies, ogre like supermutants, aliens (fallout 1 already had crashed ufo), godzilla footprints in the desert, giant iguanas and cringy 50s retro theme on top of that. I think there was even Doctor Who reference. Sorry to break it to you but it was tonally retarded from the start.

Which rpgs even are?

Usually the good ones

Post by **rusty_shackleford** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:12

I liked ATOM more than either Fallout

Feels like it gets dismissed due to being another slavout, which well, it is I guess. But it's an extremely good one that's faithful to Fallout's mechanics while extending them in some areas.

Fargus · Post by **Fargus** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:16

Can't say i like Atom. But it's not a bad game. They put a lot of effort into it. Is Trudograd any good?

Post by **rusty_shackleford** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:20

Fargus wrote: ↑ February 22nd, 2023, 00:16
Is Trudograd any good?

It improves over the base game in most ways except difficulty, which unfortunately is very undertuned. AFAIK it was a response to people complaining that ATOM was too tough or something? Not sure.

Shillitron · Post by **Shillitron** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:21

I hate FO2's beginning - it's such a drudge. FO1 is way better.
But overall hating FO2 is just a meme, it introduces so much to the lore and is overall amazing.

EDIT
The real question, what's worse? Fallout 3 or Fallout 4.

Fargus · Post by **Fargus** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:34

Shillitron wrote: ↑ February 22nd, 2023, 00:21
The real question, what's worse? Fallout 3 or Fallout 4.

Hmm, that's a tough question... i'd say F4? Because 3 at least tries to be an rpg even if it fails a lot at that.

Roguey · Post by **Roguey** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:40

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ February 22nd, 2023, 00:12
I liked ATOM more than either Fallout
Feels like it gets dismissed due to being another slavout, which well, it is I guess. But it's an extremely good one that's faithful to Fallout's mechanics while extending them in some areas.

Too much meaningless dialogue, annoying hunger mechanics.

SharkClub · Post by **SharkClub** » February 22nd, 2023, 00:43

Shillitron wrote: ↑ February 22nd, 2023, 00:21
I hate FO2's beginning - it's such a drudge. FO1 is way better.
But overall hating FO2 is just a meme, it introduces so much to the lore and is overall amazing.

EDIT
The real question, what's worse? Fallout 3 or Fallout 4.

3 easily, I've gone into this more times than I can count on the Codex. It's just a worse game overall. Worse combat, worse looter shooter popamole gameplay, far worse voice acting, a completely unoriginal story (literally just some version of Fallout 1 & Fallout 2's story duct taped together with Liam Neeson being your dad, at the very least even though Fallout 4's story was shitty it was original).

The key thing to remember when it comes to those games is that it doesn't matter at all if Fallout 3 has slightly less raped RPG mechanics than 4 if there is no reason to ever play 3 if you're looking for a game with good RPG mechanics. Fallout 3's story, locations and lore are just as bad if not worse than 4 and they both have a similar amount of lore rape.

Smoothbrains will say "oh but Fallout 3 had skills so it's a super deep RPG compared to 4 which only had the perk/stat system thing", without realizing that with Bethesda's implementation of these things they are effectively the same system. 95% of the perks in Fallout 3 were already "+X% damage/etc. with Y", and what does the Explosives skill do? The same thing. Fallout 4 simplified the systems from 3 by removing the redundancy that was mimicking complexity. New Vegas is a different beast because, using this example, the Explosives skill is actually used in multiple different types of skill checks (dialogue and objective-based). I think when most people pine for the """""""""complexity""""""""" of Fallout 3's systems in comparison to Fallout 4's they are actually misremembering how they worked in Fallout 3 itself, and applying their memories of how New Vegas utilized the list of skills to that game.

I do not like Fallout 4 very much at all, but anyone who thinks 3 is better is most likely speaking from nostalgia and having not played the game since 2008, because let's be real, as soon as New Vegas came out there was no reason to ever touch 3 again.