The Legend of Zelda - Tears of the Kingdom

[maidenhaver]

Ask me how I know you've never been to the pool.

[KnightoftheWind]

Yeah a lot of the shrines are a big pain in the ass, and very obtuse. I only try to complete the ones that aren't physics based, and thankfully some just give you the reward straight-up. Your reward for completing all of them in the last game wasn't even worth it.

[KnightoftheWind]

Guess I know what not to look forward to.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/ ... iji-aonuma

[KnightoftheWind]

► Show Spoiler

Beat the game today, I gotta say the final area was some fairly nice buildup to the climax against Ganondorf. You end up exploring the same underbelly you did in the beginning, but now it's a chasm filled with some of the toughest monsters in the game. You end up jumping down a pit and into a large room, where you do battle with hordes of dark minions. It's pretty satisfying beating up multiple hordes when you have some brutal weapons on hand (Based Gleeok Flame Sword). But once you face Ganondorf, that's where the real challenge begins. His first form may give you some trouble, but the second is easily the meat of the bossfight. It feels straight out of a Souls game, where dodging is key and you have to memorise his fast-paced attacks while dealing with his phantoms. Caused me quite a few deaths. Then he swallows his "secret stone" and transforms into a dragon, this is by far the easiest phase of the fight and in fact it's the easiest boss in the entire game. All you have to do is fly/float towards the pulsating masses of eyes on Dragon Ganon's back and destroy them all before dealing the final blow to the gem on his head. Link stabs him with the Master Sword, and that's all she wrote. Game ends decently enough, Dragon Zelda is restored back to her normal self and peace is restored to Hyrule. For the moment, of course.

Now that the main storyline is concluded I have no interest in ever returning to the game. Like last time, there is no post-game content to explore, it reverts back to your previous save as if nothing ever happened. Which would be understandable if it were like previous, more "linear" Zeldas, however this isn't like any of those. It's an open world Bethesda/Ubisoft game with little in the way of long-term reward for your efforts. You are expected to collect tens of thousands of objects, do hundreds of meaningless sidequests, and build more Mega Bloks masterpieces than a five year old before his Drag Queen Storytime session. And all for...nothing, really. None of what you do influences the main quest in any way, and you could just as easily ignore 99% of all side content without missing a thing. The open world is a distraction, oftentimes a nuisance for what you, as Link, are supposed to be doing in your quest to defeat Ganondorf. The main storyline has as much faux-urgency as Oblivion or Skyrim, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Link to stop whatever important task he's doing and help an NPC collect ten fireflies. Do those fireflies help you defeat the Demon King?, no?, then to hell with you. Despite how good the open world can look at times, none of it makes for endearing gameplay, and it falls victim to the same problems as every other release in the genre. Bloat, and lots of it.

And on top of all of that, you have the Ultrahand mechanic. What you'll be doing for 75% of the time you spend playing this game, is combining stuff to solve physics puzzles, or to maneuver around the environment. or just to move things around period. This is the one mechanic that the developers staked the entire game on, and it just becomes tiresome after the 15-20 hour mark. You'll end up doing the same motions, hearing the same sounds, to accomplish the same result time and time and time again. When you're not just exploring the surface or doing a menial sidequest, that is what you will be doing. No exceptions. It drags the entire experience down, and transforms the game into something that isn't "Zelda" in the least. Even Breath of the Wild was more faithful to what came before than this game is, despite the return of Ganondorf proper and some familiar musical cues. It's not a bad game, I'd even say it's good, but it's not something I would ever want to replay in the future. There is just as much wrong with it, as there is right.

Verdict: 7/10

[SDG]

I heard there's a quick build thing later on. You just select the thingy you want made and there it is. Wont be so bad with that.

[Segata Sanshiro]

Did you know Nintendo just invented video games?

[Segata Sanshiro]

10/10 GOTYEAH

[rusty_shackleford]

Nothing I've seen from this is actually a game. It's just a bunch of sim elements stuck together.
Most notably, it seemingly has no coherent rules, one of the most important aspects of defining something as a video game. Just glue a giant boulder to your shield, and float up to islands using a log.

It's a $70 minecraft clone without multiplayer and far more restrictions than actual minecraft because it's not built upon simulation elements. It's stagecraft design masquerading as a simulation.

[KnightoftheWind]

Nothing I've seen from this is actually a game. It's just a bunch of sim elements stuck together.
Most notably, it seemingly has no coherent rules, one of the most important aspects of defining something as a video game. Just glue a giant boulder to your shield, and float up to islands using a log.

It's a $70 minecraft clone without multiplayer and far more restrictions than actual minecraft because it's not built upon simulation elements. It's stagecraft design masquerading as a simulation.

We already have Zoomers building penis robots and orbital laser cannons apparently. This is what Zelda has become. What's next?, Elder Scrolls VI with Ultrahand?, Fallout 5 with Ultrahand?. Do I get to build a desert castle for Redguard George Floyd using giant sand blocks I find in the environment?. Do I get to combine a banana with my Daedra sword?.

[revenant]

Ultima 1 is the prime example of an open world game. You had a linear story, but you could go anywhere in the OVERWORLD. See that little castle on the left hand side? That's a town and the view shifted to a first person perspective. Dungeons also shifted to a first person perspective.

No, only dungeons did that in Ultima 1, towns had an overhead perspective like in all other Ultimas up to 5.

[Dead]

We already have Zoomers building penis robots and orbital laser cannons apparently. This is what Zelda has become.

Good.

[Gastrick]

Thoughts after playing it for around 15 hours:

pros:

• Combat is fun, map is filled with enemies to fight.
• Like running around the world, building up hearts, and entering the mapping-towers.
• Although cooking/elixers is fairly simple in this game, that only one ingredient gives effects, and there is only one ongoing effect at a time, still like trying out new items and making often-useful food/elixirs from them.
• World is quite massive in this game. Like the depths so far.

cons (this game):

• Building things with ultrahand is really tedious, especially making vehicles. The detach button often detaches several objects at once when you only wanted to detach one of them, and items often roll away on you. Some kind of editor mode with a more efficient UI would greatly improve this mechanic.
• The fusing system is wasted because of how weapons are just 5-fight consumables, all it does is make weapons breaking more bearable, that it's easier to construct strong weapons.
• The time reversing power is really useless, and all the puzzles with it have been very simple.

cons (carried over from the last game):

• That you can just pause the game whenever and open your inventory to restore all your health. Quite easy to accumulate a sizable health buffer, found an apple forest with 160 apples in total.
• That with weapons breaking, killing enemies gives very little benefits, punishes the player for attacking groups of enemies on the overworld. You'll often come away with less valuable items than you came into it. Also means that your attack stat goes back to 0 as soon as you break enough of them.
• Why experience nature in a video game, when you could go outside and see the real thing instead.
• Preferred the art direction from the N64 and Gamecube games to the weird cubic ruins in this one.

[Gastrick]

Nothing I've seen from this is actually a game. It's just a bunch of sim elements stuck together.
Most notably, it seemingly has no coherent rules, one of the most important aspects of defining something as a video game. Just glue a giant boulder to your shield, and float up to islands using a log.

It's a $70 minecraft clone without multiplayer and far more restrictions than actual minecraft because it's not built upon simulation elements. It's stagecraft design masquerading as a simulation.

We already have Zoomers building penis robots and orbital laser cannons apparently. This is what Zelda has become. What's next?, Elder Scrolls VI with Ultrahand?, Fallout 5 with Ultrahand?. Do I get to build a desert castle for Redguard George Floyd using giant sand blocks I find in the environment?. Do I get to combine a banana with my Daedra sword?.

Fallout 4 already had Minecraft elements, like with base-building.

[maidenhaver]

Why can't Link use his ultrahand time powers to make swords that can't break?

[WhiteShark]

Why can't Link use his ultrahand time powers to make swords that can't break?

Because the devs would then need to invent rewards aside from breakable weapons which they are obviously incapable of doing. Maybe if they'd had 12 years.

[KnightoftheWind]

Breakable weapons went from a minor nuisance in Breath of the Wild, to infuriating in Tears of the Kingdom. I'm now on the side of "what were they thinking?". The fact that it even applies to the Master Sword of all things is even more ridiculous. The sword that never breaks or runs out of power in previous games, the blade that's supposed to destroy Evil, now breaks after about 20-25 swings or so. It makes the thing feel cheap and unremarkable.

The devs would have been better off just having a traditional store that sells you weapons and upgrades. Or even just being able to repair weapons you find and have them last a lot longer. It's comical having Link carry a dozen different swords and clubs, and them breaking after 10-15 hits on average. It just flies completely in the face of good game design, but I'm not surprised given the people involved. Out of all the games Shigeru Miyamoto hamstringed with his "simplicity first" philosophy, why did he not see the need to reign in the Zelda team and give them a stern talking to?.

[DJOGamer]

The time reversing power is really useless, and all the puzzles with it have been very simple.

I think it's kinda op for traversal
I did a shrine where I had to perform a puzzle to get towards the altar part - instead I just threw a platform high up in the air, then got on top of it and used the reserve time spell
Though I've said on the Codex but I think removing the Stasis spell was a bad move, the time spell would've synergized with it really well

[Segata Sanshiro]

Because the devs would then need to invent rewards aside from breakable weapons which they are obviously incapable of doing. Maybe if they'd had 12 years.

Prease understanduru. Designing games is hard!

[KnightoftheWind]

Is this a real article?, I guess they've been getting a lot of 'unnecessary questions' from older fans. "Ugh, so HECKIN' restricting!. We just want an open world where all you do is collect bugs for NPCs, is that so much to ask?!. Stupid gaymers!"

I guess they got tired of making good games, and went the easy route of chasing trends.

[Gastrick]

The time reversing power is really useless, and all the puzzles with it have been very simple.

I think it's kinda op for traversal
I did a shrine where I had to perform a puzzle to get towards the altar part - instead I just threw a platform high up in the air, then got on top of it and used the reserve time spell
Though I've said on the Codex but I think removing the Stasis spell was a bad move, the time spell would've synergized with it really well

Cool trick, I was able to use it to cheese the fans shrine (Ishodag Shrine).

[maidenhaver]

Is this a real article?, I guess they've been getting a lot of 'unnecessary questions' from older fans. "Ugh, so HECKIN' restricting!. We just want an open world where all you do is collect bugs for NPCs, is that so much to ask?!. Stupid gaymers!"

I guess they got tired of making good games, and went the easy route of chasing trends.

Fucking lel they're the boomer meme. They want to throw away all those years of developing loops and fun level design, because they're too fucking old to try anymore and they can't be assed to teach the next generation. Has absolutely nothing to do with "returning to roots" or whatever. The old devs are senile, conservative, and brin dead, the new ones are all diversity hires.

[DJOGamer]

Considering the format was:
Long exposition -> Busy work to next dungeon -> Dungeon 1st half -> Dungeon Item + Mini-Boss -> Dungeon 2nd Half + Boss (mostly using dungeon item)

And also the fact this was what Aonuma has beeing doing for most of his career
Then for him "restricting" is a rather kind way to put it

[KnightoftheWind]

Considering the format was:
Long exposition -> Busy work to next dungeon -> Dungeon 1st half -> Dungeon Item + Mini-Boss -> Dungeon 2nd Half + Boss (mostly using dungeon item)

And also the fact this was what Aonuma has beeing doing for most of his career
Then for him "restricting" is a rather kind way to put it

You could boil most games down to "Long exposition -> do a thing -> do the main thing -> receive reward -> repeat". What older Zeldas did is get to the meat of the experience way faster than Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom, and they set up an ongoing narrative that made you want to complete each level to see how the plot would advance. It wasn't all that deep mind you, but it was entertaining and was more than "just go here because I said so". or "collect 15 logs of wood and 20 bunches of rice pls!". In Breath of the Wild's case, there wasn't even any meat, just a lot of bones. And while Tears of the Kingdom's reintroduction of dungeons was a much-needed step in the right direction, they still felt shallow and very primitive compared to what we had before. Even Soyward Sword had A-tier dungeons with good puzzles in them, the new game doesn't even try.

It's clear to me that the team has been lacking a cohesive creative direction since Twilight Princess, they were probably experimenting with multiple different concepts on a new game before some internal shakeup happened, and the new regime took the place of the old one. I think Aonuma is just along for the ride, he no longer has much passion for the franchise and basically said as much after Soyward Sword released. He said he wanted to make something else other than Zelda, but of course that never happened.

[maidenhaver]

Considering the format was:
Long exposition -> Busy work to next dungeon -> Dungeon 1st half -> Dungeon Item + Mini-Boss -> Dungeon 2nd Half + Boss (mostly using dungeon item)

And also the fact this was what Aonuma has beeing doing for most of his career
Then for him "restricting" is a rather kind way to put it

No. You're so far off the mark, you aren't even wrong, just soaring outside the realm of remotest possibility. What's happening is an old fuck dev doing as old cucks do: ruining their work.

[General Reign]

This will be the first mainline Zelda I do not play at launch.

[KnightoftheWind]

There are moments of brilliance in Tears of the Kingdom that I just wish were in a better game. The boss in the Wind Temple was amazing when I first played through it, it was thrilling and the only thing I remember coming close to it was that one boss in Soyward Sword when you were battling a parasite on a giant whale's back. Except more fun.

I was also fond of the characters you meet, and the cutscenes involving Ganondorf. These are all traditional Zelda moments that succeed despite the open world, not because of it. The game is begging to be re-told with Wind Waker/Twilight Princess' gameplay style, and it's unfortunate that such a thing will never happen. If every new game is going to be like this, just another open world game with gimmicks, I'm checking out.

[DJOGamer]

You could boil most games down to "Long exposition -> do a thing -> do the main thing -> receive reward -> repeat".

Don't give me that bullshit just to be contrarian
It is an undeniable fact that campgain structure has been religiously followed even well after it became clear that it was one of the chief reasons for the series stagnation

What older Zeldas did is get to the meat of the experience way faster than Breath of the Wild

That is a hard point to argue considering that in BotW:
- you can get into real gameplay in just a minute after starting a new game
- the starting area is non-linear, making it highly replayable
- you can complete in under 1 hour, making it far shorter than most Zelda games prologues
- after which you can pick up any main quest "chapters" or just immediately head straight to the end-game area

In Breath of the Wild's case, there wasn't even any meat, just a lot of bones.

Sorry, say what you will about this new direction, but BotW main quest was the best since Majora's Mask
They were concise, made the players brave the main regions of the world map, presented distinct tasks that could be solved in multiple ways thanks to the game's robust systemic design, their plots were self-contained but contributed to the over-arching narrative and they each culminated in a fresh take on the "puzzle box dungeon" concept

Even Soyward Sword had A-tier dungeons with good puzzles in them

Oh please fuck off
They barely require the player to use their braincells and mostly rehash ideas done better in previous games - even the one cool new idea, timeshift dungeons, is wasted because the dungeons are insultingly easy
Small wonder you think Wind Waker is awesome

[KnightoftheWind]

You could boil most games down to "Long exposition -> do a thing -> do the main thing -> receive reward -> repeat".

Don't give me that bullshit just to be contrarian
It is an undeniable fact that campgain structure has been religiously followed even well after it became clear that it was one of the chief reasons for the series stagnation

What older Zeldas did is get to the meat of the experience way faster than Breath of the Wild

That is a hard point to argue considering that in BotW:
- you can get into real gameplay in just a minute after starting a new game
- the starting area is non-linear, making it highly replayable
- you can complete in under 1 hour, making it far shorter than most Zelda games prologues
- after which you can pick up any main quest "chapters" or just immediately head straight to the end-game area

In Breath of the Wild's case, there wasn't even any meat, just a lot of bones.

Sorry, say what you will about this new direction, but BotW main quest was the best since Majora's Mask
They were concise, made the players brave the main regions of the world map, presented distinct tasks that could be solved in multiple ways thanks to the game's robust systemic design, their plots were self-contained but contributed to the over-arching narrative and they each culminated in a fresh take on the "puzzle box dungeon" concept

Even Soyward Sword had A-tier dungeons with good puzzles in them

Oh please fuck off
They barely require the player to use their braincells and mostly rehash ideas done better in previous games - even the one cool new idea, timeshift dungeons, is wasted because the dungeons are insultingly easy
Small wonder you think Wind Waker is awesome

Probably the worst take I've seen on Breath of the Wild. So cutting out all the bullshit, what you're really saying is "I want Zelda to play like every other open world game!". Because that's what the two recent installments are, just another open world game with a vaguely Zelda-looking skin and some gimmick slapped on for good measure. The traditional style was distinct, and never got boring. Absolutely no one complained about it post-Twilight Princess, we knew what we wanted from this franchise and we wanted more of it. It was the Zelda team themselves that didn't feel like trying anymore, and they decided to just give consoomers like you what they were conditioned to accept. Like slop being poured into a pig troff, you lined up and paid for yet another open world experience with the same flaws as every other open world game. Zelda isn't Zelda anymore, so why should older fans even bother?.

[Segata Sanshiro]

Idiocracymeme.jpg

[rusty_shackleford]

Idiocracymeme.jpg

It's not ok to bully 6 year olds.

Dear god I hope that's a 6 year old.