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Vampire: The Masquerade® - Bloodlines™ 2

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
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Atlantico
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Post by Atlantico »

Element wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 11:52
Roguey wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 11:42
Element wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 10:56
This is written by an NPC, somebody who knows how to string the words together, but has no inkling of their meaning, gaslighting the player into wondering if he's not catching on.
jeetGPT, the game.
That's just Pinchbeck's PhD writing style.

Director of Dear Esther and Machine for Pigs :smug:
With a track record like that..
Occam's razor: hire TCR to make a game, get a walking simulator

The gameplay reveal did nothing for me, the console look and feel, the color palette choices, the character design, the writing, ... none of it made an impression. There's no character to the game I saw. It looks like an asset-flip and tbqh it probably is to a large extent. TCR had to build this in a hurry and that shows.

The lack of weapons, inventory and such is definitely not a "command from above" as some would claim, occam's razor demands it be lack of time, resources and TCR leaning to their strong suit.
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Post by Roguey »

Atlantico wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 13:59
The lack of weapons, inventory and such is definitely not a "command from above" as some would claim, occam's razor demands it be lack of time, resources and TCR leaning to their strong suit.
TCR and Paradox agreed to a contract at the beginning of the project that outlined exactly what TCR had to deliver. "Loot and weapons for the player character" were clearly not in the contract, therefore Paradox didn't think they were important enough to demand. They're the ones with all the power in this situation.
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Post by Atlantico »

Roguey wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 16:19
Atlantico wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 13:59
The lack of weapons, inventory and such is definitely not a "command from above" as some would claim, occam's razor demands it be lack of time, resources and TCR leaning to their strong suit.
TCR and Paradox agreed to a contract at the beginning of the project that outlined exactly what TCR had to deliver. "Loot and weapons for the player character" were clearly not in the contract, therefore Paradox didn't think they were important enough to demand. They're the ones with all the power in this situation.
Doesn't pass Occam's Razor, too convoluted and too many assumptions.

Most obvious and simple conclusion is that TCR makes a TCR game. Which they have.
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Post by Roguey »

Atlantico wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 19:50
Doesn't pass Occam's Razor, too convoluted and too many assumptions.
Dude, you don't know anything about game development.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

I think @Roguey is right here insofar that it's the absolute minimum effort to meet the specifications of the client. There is no heart or soul being put into this, and paradox has already sunk so much money in it that they likely just want the saga to be over and forget about it.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

Interesting how most modern vampire media depict these creatures as "misunderstood" and oppressed by the world, and the "evil" Church in particular. Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould. These are supposed to be beings of absolute evil, cut from the Devil's cloth, and yet they are portrayed as noble if not outright heroic.

I'd rather play as a character that hunts vampires down, without it being cringe slop like Redfall.
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Post by Roguey »

KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
It does not.
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Post by Acrux »

KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
You're inversely wrong. They are the ones oppressing the world in the game and know it.
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Post by Vergil »

Aren't there Christian vampires in the setting? I know someone whose obsessed with the medieval era stuff.
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Post by Anon »

In VTM Redemption you play as a crusader from the middle ages, who torpors into modern society. The game is very oldschool though.
Last edited by Anon on February 2nd, 2024, 23:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Vergil »

I tried to play it but ended up getting filtered soon after you actually become a vampire.
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Post by Irenaeus »

KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it
Unless you're some kind of zoomer, you should definitively check the original (and finish it).
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

Acrux wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 22:15
KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
You're inversely wrong. They are the ones oppressing the world in the game and know it.
If that's the case, then I'm surprised. It'd be one of very few exceptions to the rule.
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Post by Anon »

Yeah VtM has the best vampire lore and writing that I know in the market.
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Post by maidenhaver »

KnightoftheWind wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 01:09
Acrux wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 22:15
KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
You're inversely wrong. They are the ones oppressing the world in the game and know it.
If that's the case, then I'm surprised. It'd be one of very few exceptions to the rule.
Vampires are obviously bad guys in Underworld. Its just furries are worse.
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Post by Oyster Sauce »

Anon wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 01:29
Yeah PoE has the best fampyr lore and writing that I know in the market.
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Post by gerey »

KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
To expand on what others have said, the game makes it abundantly clear that you and your ilk are monstrous, vile, bloodsucking parasites skulking in the shadows, spreading misery wherever you go. God Himself cursed the whole lot of you for eternity.

There's a character called Smiling Jack that comes across as likeable rogue, he's the first friendly face you meet, the guy that gives you a crash-course on unlife and vampire society. He's also a "freedom fighter" and all around rebel, but even he views humans as little more than cattle.

Arguably, the game could have leaned a bit more into the fact that all vampires are monsters, but neither does it try to romanticize the vampiric condition.
Last edited by gerey on February 3rd, 2024, 08:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by DagothGeas5 »

► Show Spoiler
To add to the added, one can also decide to play as a Nosferatu, which are reviled even by other vampires. Can't recall the details regarding why they look like they do, but it should be in the game. The tabletop it is based(I think?) on has more in-depth focus about vampirism being a curse, with every clan having their own personal curse they suffer from/have to endure.
It has been a while, but I recall, for example, one clan being all about art and loving of the good things, usually becoming obsessed (OBSESSED) with one particular thing, be it a person, or art, or anything like it. For example: if one such a vampire was obsessed with a beautiful vista to be pictured on an oil painting, they will do all they can to make that vista be PERFECT. The curse? It will NEVER be perfect, and they will suffer endlessly for it. It goes deeper than this, and I could be mixing two clans together, but it is one that comes to mind.

Also @Oyster Sauce your profile picture changing daily is awesome XD The one you have today gave me a jump-scare :lol:
Last edited by DagothGeas5 on February 3rd, 2024, 11:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Atlantico »

Roguey wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 20:36
Atlantico wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 19:50
Doesn't pass Occam's Razor, too convoluted and too many assumptions.
Dude, you don't know anything about game development.
Too many assumptions :Inspector:
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Post by Atlantico »

rusty_shackleford wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 20:39
There is no heart or soul being put into this, and paradox has already sunk so much money in it that they likely just want the saga to be over and forget about it.
whiteknighting developers rusty... tsk tsk
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Post by Element »

gerey wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 08:52
KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
To expand on what others have said, the game makes it abundantly clear that you and your ilk are monstrous, vile, bloodsucking parasites skulking in the shadows, spreading misery wherever you go. God Himself cursed the whole lot of you for eternity.

There's a character called Smiling Jack that comes across as likeable rogue, he's the first friendly face you meet, the guy that gives you a crash-course on unlife and vampire society. He's also a "freedom fighter" and all around rebel, but even he views humans as little more than cattle.

Arguably, the game could have leaned a bit more into the fact that all vampires are monsters, but neither does it try to romanticize the vampiric condition.
As I remember it the Anarchs were quite ok as well.

VtM (tabletop) does try to get across to the player that all vampires are monstrous, but there's still a gradation to it. The Sabbat is bad, the Tzimisce clan in particular is depraved to a degree that other kindred don't want anything to do with.
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Post by Element »

KnightoftheWind wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 01:09
Acrux wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 22:15
KnightoftheWind wrote: February 2nd, 2024, 21:43
Never played the original Bloodlines, but I imagine it follows a similar mould.
You're inversely wrong. They are the ones oppressing the world in the game and know it.
If that's the case, then I'm surprised. It'd be one of very few exceptions to the rule.
Troika were faithful to the source material.
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Post by The_Mask »

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/de ... s.1623493/

Image

Hello again,

This is my 3rd dev diary, and I have used the last two to talk about the 1st and 2nd pillars of the game: Feel Like a Vampire, which covered the player fantasy; Visceral Immersive combat, which covers the action gameplay. Today I want to tell you about our 3rd and final game pillar: "Explore The World of Darkness," which covers the setting, society, characters, story, and RPG elements of the game. We'll be talking in-depth about RPG elements at a later date, so today I am going to focus mainly on the setting, society, and characters.

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The World of Darkness is the larger umbrella for the Vampire The Masquerade IP and the related games. It handles the supernatural in a mature and grounded way, basing it on the premise that vampires, werewolves, and ghosts are actually real, but are hidden from our contemporary human society. Video games offer a unique perspective on this world that other mediums don't, being able to walk around it and explore it. Our goal with this pillar was to create a version of Seattle that is authentic to The World of Darkness IP and makes you believe that this hidden side of Seattle, where vampires are in control, could be real and that in contrast the human world feels more alien to you and potentially unreal. To that end, we didn't set about making an exact replica of Seattle, as our priority wasn't to represent the human world, but the vampire one. The Seattle you experience in Bloodlines 2 is a kind of "best-of" Seattle where we've taken key landmarks and brought them in closer together. For example, Pioneer Square is a key location, and it speaks to us of the old city and its founders (some of which were vampires that you will meet), but we also have volunteer park, which in reality is on the outskirts of the city but we loved the idea of doing a creepy mission there that reveals something sinister beneath this iconic conservatory.

We want you to feel like you are seeing Seattle through the eyes of a vampire, so we have also made buildings taller, lights brighter, and alleyways darker to give an overall heightened feeling to what you are seeing as if you are looking through the eyes of an apex predator. For a better explanation of this, I suggest you read Ben Matthews dev diary on our neo-noir art style.

In Bloodlines 1 you were a new vampire in a city with a large Anarch presence where the Camarilla don’t have complete dominance. For Bloodlines 2 we have flipped this on its head. You play Phyre, an Elder vampire (~400 years old) in a city where Camarilla has been dominant for decades, and any hint of Anarch sympathy is squashed. Phyre's number 1 loyalty is to herself, but she is wise enough to respect the power of the Camarilla and, more importantly, the Masquerade. Within the story Phyre earns a seat at the top-table of the Camarilla as the court's Sheriff, giving her the court's protection but also a powerful authority within Seattle's vampire society. This is an RPG, of course, so you can roleplay Sheriff in multiple ways, maybe you are a loyal Sheriff of the Camarilla, or an Anarch sympathiser working from within to undermine the court, or maybe you're a self-centred Elder vampire playing the different factions off each other to your advantage.

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Phyre's motivation in the story is driven (at least initially) by regaining her power - she has awoken after 100 years in torpor (vampire hibernation) 6000 miles from home with markings all over her body which are limiting her powers. This sets up the narrative context of the ability tree (which we will show in due course) which instead of being about adding new powers to Phyre, like levelling up in the pen-and-paper RPG, you are unlocking her existing powers. Over her 300 years roaming the old world, Phyre had gained many powers, not only those from the disciplines of her clan.

An important part of the Masquerade is that vampires are hidden in plain sight in our society. There are several vampire hangouts in the city which, to a passerby appear innocent, but to those in the know, are important places in vampire society. For example, the little old lady who runs the all-night coffee shop may not be as sweet and defenceless as she seems at first glance. A key location the player often returns to, is Weaver Tower, a Seattle corporate HQ that is actually the front for the Camarilla, inspired by the downtown skyscrapers in Seattle and giving the city's Prince a skyline view over their domain.

Lastly, there can be no World of Darkness without light - the world of humans. The city is populated with "civilians," unaware that you are a vampire walking among them. Whilst this may seem great to a vampire - free-ranged food on every street - it also comes with risk, as using your vampiric powers or feeding in front of witnesses can trigger a Masquerade breach, and while you are Sheriff, even you are not above the law and could have the court's Scourge sent to deal with you if you are reckless on the streets of the emerald city. So make sure to hunt like a vampire: stalking from rooftops, hunting in alleyways, isolating your prey and if you are observed, deal with witnesses swiftly.

I hope you enjoyed hearing more about the setting and world of Bloodlines 2. We look forward to sharing more information with you in future dev diaries.

Good night!
Alex Skidmore, Project Creative Director

The Mask's Note: 1. all the spelling mistakes for "self-centered" and "sympathizer" are as written. I did not alter the text in any way.
2. the previous gameplay video is sitting at 4.1K likes and 9.8K dislikes. That would explain why the director is credited with the above update. They must be in a bit of a panic, I would say. Time will tell if I am correct, obviously.
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Post by Anon »

Their dev diaries always seem solid but saying is always easier than showing. I look forward to any of their gameplay footages inspiring any confidence.

I for example can't put much trust in this:
maybe you are a loyal Sheriff of the Camarilla, or an Anarch sympathiser working from within to undermine the court, or maybe you're a self-centred Elder vampire playing the different factions off each other to your advantage.
When their gameplay footage showed retarded dialogue and interactions, with Fabien treating you like a moron for example "he's hiding something".
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Post by Griffin »

If they spent 24 million dollars on the first aborted attempt, I wonder what's the budget for this one, another 20 million? I predict that this will tank like motherfucker.
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Post by J1M »

"As a newcomer you are quickly appointed sheriff"
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Post by Anon »

J1M wrote: February 9th, 2024, 20:56
"As a newcomer you are quickly appointed sheriff"
In this case it tracks. An elder waking from torpor is big news, especially when so many of them are far away because of the Beckoning. If you're prince of the region, better have the elder vampire in good favour (and relatively in control).
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Post by J1M »

Anon wrote: February 9th, 2024, 21:05
J1M wrote: February 9th, 2024, 20:56
"As a newcomer you are quickly appointed sheriff"
In this case it tracks. An elder waking from torpor is big news, especially when so many of them are far away because of the Beckoning. If you're prince of the region, better have the elder vampire in good favour (and relatively in control).
Making a big question mark into your personal bodyguard would be a mistake. Especially if the previous sheriff isn't final dead.

There are better ways to achieve the goals you mentioned.
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Post by Anon »

J1M wrote: February 9th, 2024, 21:12
Anon wrote: February 9th, 2024, 21:05
J1M wrote: February 9th, 2024, 20:56
"As a newcomer you are quickly appointed sheriff"
In this case it tracks. An elder waking from torpor is big news, especially when so many of them are far away because of the Beckoning. If you're prince of the region, better have the elder vampire in good favour (and relatively in control).
Making a big question mark into your personal bodyguard would be a mistake. Especially if the previous sheriff isn't final dead.

There are better ways to achieve the goals you mentioned.
I still disagree, sheriff really seems like a nice pick as you can easily send her to extremely dangerous missions. So while you're giving her a position of power to appease her, you're still able to find plenty ways to dispose of her.

If the previous sheriff was extremely loyal like VTMB1 was, he'd understand the issue at hand, and could expect to be back in office soon.
Last edited by Anon on February 9th, 2024, 22:10, edited 2 times in total.
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