Vampire: The Masquerade® - Bloodlines™ 2

[J1M]

That write down wasn't just for bloodlines. If you assume that on average an employee costs $100k per year (mediocre salary plus benefits and some equipment), that's 240 years of employment. Are we pretending they had 80 full-time people on that game for 3 years?

[Roguey]

That write down wasn't just for bloodlines. If you assume that on average an employee costs $100k per year (mediocre salary plus benefits and some equipment), that's 240 years of employment. Are we pretending they had 80 full-time people on that game for 3 years?

The game was in development for five, why not? They had to scale up to full production within the first few years, they were expecting to release it in early 2020, it was canceled in early 2021.

[J1M]

That write down wasn't just for bloodlines. If you assume that on average an employee costs $100k per year (mediocre salary plus benefits and some equipment), that's 240 years of employment. Are we pretending they had 80 full-time people on that game for 3 years?

The game was in development for five, why not? They had to scale up to full production within the first few years, they were expecting to release it in early 2020, it was canceled in early 2021.

You are a bit of a historian for this game. You tell me how many people were working on it. But with the way preproduction works, it's basically a skeleton crew that are often part time on something else. If there were hundreds of staff on this thing when it was canned we would have more leaks from disgruntled people.

[rusty_shackleford]

afaik hardsuit was working on their own game and funneling money from vtmb2 towards it, meaning vtmb2 probably had a skeleton crew
and that's despite the fact that they were partly owned by paradox

[Roguey]

That write down wasn't just for bloodlines. If you assume that on average an employee costs $100k per year (mediocre salary plus benefits and some equipment), that's 240 years of employment. Are we pretending they had 80 full-time people on that game for 3 years?

The game was in development for five, why not? They had to scale up to full production within the first few years, they were expecting to release it in early 2020, it was canceled in early 2021.

You are a bit of a historian for this game. You tell me how many people were working on it. But with the way preproduction works, it's basically a skeleton crew that are often part time on something else. If there were hundreds of staff on this thing when it was canned we would have more leaks from disgruntled people.

I think the peak was 60. It was never hundreds, it wasn't triple-A. There were also quite a number of negative glassdoor reviews.

afaik hardsuit was working on their own game and funneling money from vtmb2 towards it, meaning vtmb2 probably had a skeleton crew
and that's despite the fact that they were partly owned by paradox

The bulk of their employees were on Bloodlines 2. They had a few people starting work on another RPG they wanted to springboard to.

[Atlantico]

How fucked is it that $24 million isn't "a lot" for a game budget (that didn't even finish) now?

Many reasons; e.g. the diminishing returns and overhead from having a huge team to create so many art assets, inflation, marketing, development taking 4-5 years ... it all adds up

[rusty_shackleford]

Wouldn't be surprised to learn that most of it was subsidized by EU and/or Swedish government anyways.

[krokodil]

you people are clowns

[The_Mask]

https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/game ... vabl2_news

Hello!

I'm Sarah Longthorne, Senior Narrative Designer and Writer. Today, we're discussing the narrative in Bloodlines 2 from a sky-high perspective. What are the conflicts and challenges in Seattle's Court and, how will they affect you?

Samson In Chains
The story of Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 is, at its cold, unbeating heart, about control: the amount and kind of control you have over others, the control they exert over you in turn, and the control you lose—and slowly regain—over yourself… and your fate.

You wake trapped in Seattle, the full extent of your power artificially suppressed—diminished to a mere pawn, to be used and exploited. After all, what are others if not our most disposable assets?

And what better asset than a leashed and muzzled Elder?

Our main NPC characters like Lou, Ryong, and Tolly all have their own agenda that your involvement could greatly advance.

It might not be in your best interest to bite every hand that seeks to bring you to heel, but to pick and choose, to play along—to bide your time. Or not. That much, darling, is down to you.

Neo-Noir
Neo-Noir blurs the lines of morality and explores themes like revenge, paranoia, alienation. All of which perfectly encapsulate a Kindred’s existence, especially when you consider that neo-noir stories are often driven by nihilistic, morally gray antiheroes. Hello, Kindred!



We love Tolly. There is nothing sinister about this man.

We focus on character, who knows what and who has the power in any given situation, and how the player can use that to their advantage. No one in Bloodlines 2 knows everything about everything, as much as they might pretend. So, how the player navigates these alliances and goes about learning new information makes the player feel like they are investigating a complex web of lies. We try to ensure that the player feels in control of the information that they know, who they share those secrets with, and why.

What happens to an Elder?
One of our early design decisions was to make the player character into an Elder Kindred. This was interesting to us because it means that we can play with how this established vampire knows things about being a Kindred already and how we can create gaps to let the player learn this type of information firsthand. Balancing the opportunity and the history it entails with the desire to allow players to still roleplay and make the character their own. It was extremely challenging but fun!



Kindred do not relate to each other the way that we do, especially extremely old Kindred, like our protagonist. They don’t have ‘friends’, for instance – everything is about power and possession, which are the antithesis of any genuine connection. It’s a challenge to try and disconnect from how we might view a thing and step into that mindset in order to properly represent it. You have to lean first on making that character interesting to learn about and spend time with – you cannot expect players to initially identify with them, or maybe even like them. It takes finesse to balance that, to zoom out and find the broader, more universal entry points that might encourage players to feel like they can identify with that character.



Humanity is something distant, so what does that make humans to you? Centuries of existence can be tough on a person who can only feed on others. Are they just something to be consumed, or is it possible to have trust and kinship? Is everyone just a chess piece or a trophy?

All these questions and more are what we’re asking about your character and the NPCs that star in Bloodlines 2.

We’ll see you back in two weeks for our next Dev Diary when we’ll explore the Neo-Noir art style.

[gerey]

Honestly sounds like a lot of pointless drivel.

So, the character is an Elder vampire, meaning he's fairly knowledgeable about the WoD. How do they plan to make this work when the vast majority of players are neither familiar with WoD in general, nor have they played the first Bloodlines, or likely any other WoD games? Are they just going to make the protagonist an amnesiac, or have a spotty memory (basically what the first game did, only with a few more retarded steps)?

Are they going to have the PC ask the people around him really stupid questions about things he ought to know about?

Are we going to be stuck with some overly-verbose, opinionated liberal in our heads, representative of our past self, screeching at the PC to suck the tranny cock?

I dislike how they talk about player-freedom, yet are already assigning personality traits to the PC that we don't get to chose.

Also, the game is being written by a woman.

[Roguey]

Are they going to have the PC ask the people around him really stupid questions about things he ought to know about?

Only having the option to ask questions about things you the player know about the world itself would be funny.

I suspect the exposition about the WoD will be similar to kotor 2, where it comes directly from the PC.

[Atlantico]

Are they going to have the PC ask the people around him really stupid questions about things he ought to know about?

Only having the option to ask questions about things you the player know about the world itself would be funny.

I suspect the exposition about the WoD will be similar to kotor 2, where it comes directly from the PC.

I like environmental exposition in 3D RPGs, listen to the radio, read books, watch TV, read email, talk to NPCs

Direct exposition should be kept to an absolute minimum, i.e. exposition that is told to your face through the main plot. Exposition should also be available after the fact, so if the player is confused as to why something happened, he should be able to seek out answers in game. This is a good way to make an immersive RPG.

[J1M]

Elder suppressing magic. Seems like a weird conceit to introduce unless later the player can use it to weaken a rival.

From the marketing blurb it sounds like they only wanted the character to be an elder for writing reasons. There won't be any risks with the gameplay power curve.

[Boontaker]

Elder vampire, dies to random pleb from lack of skill point allocation

[Goth-Girl-Supremacy]

I do like to watch people come to the realization the WoD setting was always a steaming pile of shit that was saved by '90s grit and edge making it seem far cooler than it actually ever was as the last 20 years has steadily unveiled.

[gerey]

to be an elder for writing reasons

What reasons other than profound mental retardation? Seems to me these geniuses followed the same smoothbrain logic as the previous bunch of cretins, only that instead of the PC being a thinblood, they picked the other, equally retarded alternative. Arguably, their take is even more shit - at least the thinblood had lore reason for why he was everyone's errand boy.

Even the WoD books go out of their way to warn GMs and players not to generate (or be allowed to generate) such powerful characters. The hoops the writers need to jump through in Bloodlines 2 to make it work are a very good argument why.

[Roguey]

to be an elder for writing reasons

What reasons other than profound mental retardation? Seems to me these geniuses followed the same smoothbrain logic as the previous bunch of cretins, only that instead of the PC being a thinblood, they picked the other, equally retarded alternative. Arguably, their take is even more shit - at least the thinblood had lore reason for why he was everyone's errand boy.

Even the WoD books go out of their way to warn GMs and players not to generate (or be allowed to generate) such powerful characters. The hoops the writers need to jump through in Bloodlines 2 to make it work are a very good argument why.

Bloodlines had "Caine is implicitly lowering your generation" to explain why you were suddenly dominating everything by end game and completely immune to LaCroix's dominate ability at the end. There's always going to be some kind of bullshit in the context of a video game.

[Emphyrio]

Honestly sounds like a lot of pointless drivel.

So, the character is an Elder vampire, meaning he's fairly knowledgeable about the WoD. How do they plan to make this work when the vast majority of players are neither familiar with WoD in general, nor have they played the first Bloodlines, or likely any other WoD games? Are they just going to make the protagonist an amnesiac, or have a spotty memory (basically what the first game did, only with a few more retarded steps)?

Are they going to have the PC ask the people around him really stupid questions about things he ought to know about?

Are we going to be stuck with some overly-verbose, opinionated liberal in our heads, representative of our past self, screeching at the PC to suck the tranny cock?

I dislike how they talk about player-freedom, yet are already assigning personality traits to the PC that we don't get to chose.

Who cares

Also, the game is being written by a woman.

Anne Rice?

[Dead]

Anne Rice is dead.

[GhostCow]

Anne Rice turned vampires into homos

[Dead]

Have vampires ever not been homo?

[Atlantico]

I do like to watch people come to the realization the WoD setting was always a steaming pile of shit that was saved by '90s grit and edge making it seem far cooler than it actually ever was as the last 20 years has steadily unveiled.

I have seen no evidence to the contrary. VtmB was unusual in that it didn't suck rocks like all other WoD games before and after it.

[rusty_shackleford]

I wonder if vtm redemption would be more popular if it didn't get overshadowed so hard by vtmb

[GhostCow]

Redemption is held back by being a Diablo clone. It should have been turn based or an action RPG. Great writing though. Very unique multiplayer that should be cloned too.

[maidenhaver]

Is Redemption the medieval one?

[GhostCow]

It starts that way then goes to the modern era

[maidenhaver]

Neo-Noir
Neo-Noir blurs the lines of morality and explores themes like revenge, paranoia, alienation. All of which perfectly encapsulate a Kindred’s existence, especially when you consider that neo-noir stories are often driven by nihilistic, morally gray antiheroes. Hello, Kindred!

None of those themes are interesting. They're played to death. I'm tired of resentful antiheroes fallen from grace trying to get revenge.

[The_Mask]

None of those themes are interesting. They're played to death. I'm tired of resentful antiheroes fallen from grace trying to get revenge.

I'm okay with anything, as long as the writer is trying hard to portray a story. It can even be a story we've read before, as long as it is told well and the characters are likeable. I am totally aware that not everyone is original. I am also aware that some people are not smart. It's okay to be mediocre. It's okay to take something that it has been done before, give it a little twist, and call it your own.

Personally, what I dislike is when they are lying to your face that it is the best shit you've ever seen, when it's not.

Going onwards: let's see if they are aware of what they're making OR if they try to scam us.

[rusty_shackleford]

Neo-Noir
Neo-Noir blurs the lines of morality and explores themes like revenge, paranoia, alienation. All of which perfectly encapsulate a Kindred’s existence, especially when you consider that neo-noir stories are often driven by nihilistic, morally gray antiheroes. Hello, Kindred!

None of those themes are interesting. They're played to death. I'm tired of resentful antiheroes fallen from grace trying to get revenge.

It's the equivalent of the indie earthbound meme except for AA+ devs.

[Kalarion]

None of those themes are interesting. They're played to death. I'm tired of resentful antiheroes fallen from grace trying to get revenge.

I'm okay with anything, as long as the writer is trying hard to portray a story. It can even be a story we've read before, as long as it is told well and the characters are likeable. I am totally aware that not everyone is original. I am also aware that some people are not smart. It's okay to be mediocre. It's okay to take something that it has been done before, give it a little twist, and call it your own.

Personally, what I dislike is when they are lying to your face that it is the best shit you've ever seen, when it's not.

Going onwards: let's see if they are aware of what they're making OR if they try to scam us.

Let's just re-read, shall we?

Hello!

I'm Sarah Longthorne, Senior Narrative Designer and Writer. Today, we're discussing the narrative in Bloodlines 2 from a sky-high perspective. What are the conflicts and challenges in Seattle's Court and, how will they affect you?

Samson In Chains
The story of Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 is, at its cold, unbeating heart, about control: the amount and kind of control you have over others, the control they exert over you in turn, and the control you lose—and slowly regain—over yourself… and your fate.

You wake trapped in Seattle, the full extent of your power artificially suppressed—diminished to a mere pawn, to be used and exploited. After all, what are others if not our most disposable assets?

And what better asset than a leashed and muzzled Elder?

Our main NPC characters like Lou, Ryong, and Tolly all have their own agenda that your involvement could greatly advance.

It might not be in your best interest to bite every hand that seeks to bring you to heel, but to pick and choose, to play along—to bide your time. Or not. That much, darling, is down to you.

Neo-Noir
Neo-Noir blurs the lines of morality and explores themes like revenge, paranoia, alienation. All of which perfectly encapsulate a Kindred’s existence, especially when you consider that neo-noir stories are often driven by nihilistic, morally gray antiheroes. Hello, Kindred!

...

We focus on character, who knows what and who has the power in any given situation, and how the player can use that to their advantage. No one in Bloodlines 2 knows everything about everything, as much as they might pretend. So, how the player navigates these alliances and goes about learning new information makes the player feel like they are investigating a complex web of lies. We try to ensure that the player feels in control of the information that they know, who they share those secrets with, and why.

What happens to an Elder?
One of our early design decisions was to make the player character into an Elder Kindred. This was interesting to us because it means that we can play with how this established vampire knows things about being a Kindred already and how we can create gaps to let the player learn this type of information firsthand. Balancing the opportunity and the history it entails with the desire to allow players to still roleplay and make the character their own. It was extremely challenging but fun!

Kindred do not relate to each other the way that we do, especially extremely old Kindred, like our protagonist. They don’t have ‘friends’, for instance – everything is about power and possession, which are the antithesis of any genuine connection. It’s a challenge to try and disconnect from how we might view a thing and step into that mindset in order to properly represent it. You have to lean first on making that character interesting to learn about and spend time with – you cannot expect players to initially identify with them, or maybe even like them. It takes finesse to balance that, to zoom out and find the broader, more universal entry points that might encourage players to feel like they can identify with that character.

Humanity is something distant, so what does that make humans to you? Centuries of existence can be tough on a person who can only feed on others. Are they just something to be consumed, or is it possible to have trust and kinship? Is everyone just a chess piece or a trophy?

All these questions and more are what we’re asking about your character and the NPCs that star in Bloodlines 2...