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Which RPG has the best combat(in their subgenre)?

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
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rusty_shackleford
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Which RPG has the best combat(in their subgenre)?

Post by rusty_shackleford »

There's a lotta RPGs, and therefore a lotta combat. So, I've got to ask some questions:
  • Best DRPG combat?
    • Best solo DRPG combat?
      • Best solo turn-based DRPG combat?
      • Best solo real-time DRPG combat?
    • Best party-based DRPG combat?
      • Best party-based turn-based DRPG combat?
      • Best party-based real-time DRPG combat?
  • Best tacticool turn-based combat?
    • Best grid-based tacticool turn-based combat?
    • Best gridless tacticool turn-based combat?
  • Best action combat?
    • Best third-person action combat? — Think Gothic
    • Best bird's-eye-view action combat? — Think Diablo
    • Best first-person action combat?
  • Best RTwP?
    • Best true(doesn't use round-based internally, but is time-based) RTwP?
    • Best false(internally round-based) RTwP?
  • Best overall?

Did I miss anything?

[edit]

I separated 'Third person action combat' into third-person close camera kind(Gothic) and bird's eye view kind(Diablo)
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on March 26th, 2024, 18:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Gregz
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Post by Gregz »

Any answer that doesn't include these two games is wrong:

Jagged Alliance 2
Mount & Blade: Warband
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Gregz wrote: March 26th, 2024, 18:36
Any answer that doesn't include these two games is wrong:

Jagged Alliance 2
Mount & Blade: Warband
But JA2 isn't an RPG :scratch:
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Post by Gregz »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 26th, 2024, 18:37
Gregz wrote: March 26th, 2024, 18:36
Any answer that doesn't include these two games is wrong:

Jagged Alliance 2
Mount & Blade: Warband
But JA2 isn't an RPG :scratch:
Of course it is.
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WhiteShark
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Post by WhiteShark »

You need a subcategory for turn-based DRPG combat with timed inputs.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: March 26th, 2024, 19:00
You need a subcategory for turn-based DRPG combat with timed inputs.
Only after you answer the questions
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Post by The_Mask »

Do any of your options cover phase-based?
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WhiteShark
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Post by WhiteShark »

Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City is my favorite for turn-based, party-based DRPG combat. 5 man custom party, front row/back row, a variety of powerful status effects that do work on bosses, special powers that require multiple party members to activate, skill trees, combo potential, challenging difficulty.
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Val the Moofia Boss
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Trails of Cold Steel. The microlevel combat is multilayered. Rather than just using a basic attack command, characters have different attack skills (called crafts) with different damage potential, AoE shapes and ranges, effects, and craft point costs. You can also move your character around the battlefield at the expense of not being able to do anything else on your turn, and positioning can become very important when trying to avoid enemy AoEs while also stacking close enough together to benefit from AoE buff crafts, or to hit as many enemies as possible with your line AoE crafts, drawing aggro from bosses and face them away from the group, etc. There is also a turn order that can be manipulated by using buffs/debuffs to increase/decrease character's speed, and attacks that can be used to delay an enemy's turn. There are also turn order bonuses that you want to snag (+100 CP, for example, or a heal) or try to make sure land on your enemies (like losing all of your CP).

The only issue is that the game designers did not balance the CP costs of the crafts in a logical manner, so when it comes to only dealing pure damage, there are objectively better crafts than others, but most of the time on the hardest difficulty I'm spending a lot of time trying to consider "hm... do I want to use this craft to interrupt an enemy's cast? Do I want to try to delay him? Do I want to roll the chance of the enemy being hit by freeze? Do I instead try to buff up to tank through the damage he is about to inflict?" etc. Sadly, in the new Kuro no Kiseki games, moving a character around is a free action, so you can move and use a craft on the same turn, which greatly diminishes the difficulty of those games as you can so easily get into perfect position (in addition to the lackluster boss design).


Sakura Wars 5 and its spiritual successor, Valkyria Chronicles. Great mission design. Missions where you have to blow up a massive, seemingly unstoppable supertank that crushes anything in its way. Missions where you have to blow up a bridge while being shot at by an armored train on top of it. Missions where you're fighting against a huge boss mech while on top of a train in a subway tunnel with little room to maneuver. Missions where you need a team to hop onto a surfaced submarine and blow up some stuff on it and then jump off before it submerges again. Etc. Only issue is that in the first VC game, you're usually trying to capture enemy bases, so the best strategy is to deploy most of your team as scouts as they have the longest running distance, and a scout's bolt action rifle and grenade is sufficient to capture most bases singlehandedly. Addressed in VC4 where you have a lot more complicated missions such as defending a base from high HP bosses or trying to assault a heavily defended position where you can't just rely on scouts. You actually want to use assault troopers who have less movement range and are more vulnerable, making the game much more difficult.



World of Wacraft raid encounters. There are some really cool fights, like the Gunship battle where a team has to detach from the raid and go jump over to the other airship to assassinate the enemy commander. Spine of Deathwing where the raid is having to cling onto the back of a dragon while he is rolling trying to throw you off. The Dark Animus encounter where you have to carefully manage the flow of anima from smaller golems to medium and bigger sized golems, trying to delay the filling up of the boss' anima tank for as long as possible. The Siegecrafter Blackfuse fight where a team has to detach from the raid and hop onto the conveyor belt and destroy 1 or 2 out of 3 inventions, and the surviving invention does something to the raid (ie a magnet that pulls the raid towards AoEs). Operator Thogar where you're having to dodge incoming trains. The Sylvanas fight where you're chasing her across the giant chains. Etc. I haven't seen any cool fights like this outside of maybe Sakura Wars 5 and the Valkyria Chronicles games.

Gregz wrote: March 26th, 2024, 18:36
Mount & Blade: Warband
I really like Mount & Blade Warband. Sunk hundreds of hours into it, but unfortunately the combat is only really interesting during the earlygame, when you have small numbers and don't have elite troops yet. That is when the game is most difficult and you really have to think about your positioning (trying to force enemies through chokepoints, or making them walk slowly uphill, trying to position/layer your troops for maximum coverage, etc), what weapons they are wielding, splitting your forces so you can perform flanking actions, etc. But once you get 200 or so guys and elite units, the game pretty much devolves into archer spam or leading cavalry charges as a death ball and smashing into the enemy over and over. The castle assaults are the worst as everyone walks up a ramp in a singlefile line getting mowed down by archers.
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Post by Kalarion »

Turn-based DRPG
Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land
Elminage: Gothic

Grid-based Tacticool
Battle Brothers
Troubleshooters
Exile II or III

Gridless Tacticool
Arc the Lad?
Diofield Chronicles?

I don't care enough about the rest of the categories to have a favorite.
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Post by Acrux »

I could probably think of something better, but this is off the top of my head


Best party-based turn-based DRPG combat? Elminage Gothic; Wizardry 6/7Grimoire
Best party-based real-time DRPG combat? Lands of Lore

Best grid-based tacticool turn-based combat? Tactics Ogre
Best gridless tacticool turn-based combat? ToEE

Best true(doesn't use round-based internally, but is time-based) RTwP? DAO
Best false(internally round-based) RTwP? IWD2
Last edited by Acrux on March 26th, 2024, 20:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

wrt first-person combat: Fallout 4 has decent shooty-pooty, they had the doom guys from id work on it to make it less terrible afaik.
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Post by Element »

Best action: Bloodborne, if it qualifies. It was the one in the series where the balance felt right. DeS, I've heard, has op magic. Dark Souls can be trivialized with a shield. DS2 was good of the one build I played, perhaps others are broken.
Best gridless tacticool: JA2
Best true RtwP: I don't remember if NWN2 has rounds internally or not. I'd go with MotB. If not, then DAO.
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Post by Dead »


Exanima has the best action combat, and it's not even finished.
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Post by Nammu Archag »

Not sure if they even count as RPGs but Vermintide 1-2 and Dark Messiah probably have some of the better first-person combat systems, though there are several games coming out soon/in early access that might qualify as well and are more true rpgs.
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Post by ArcaneLurker »

Best first-person action combat?


Not an RPG, but the combat should be in one.
Last edited by ArcaneLurker on March 26th, 2024, 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Emphyrio »

ArcaneLurker wrote: March 26th, 2024, 21:29
Best first-person action combat?


Not an RPG, but the combat should be in one.
what is this, a game for fish?
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Post by ArcaneLurker »

Emphyrio wrote: March 26th, 2024, 21:34
ArcaneLurker wrote: March 26th, 2024, 21:29
Best first-person action combat?


Not an RPG, but the combat should be in one.
what is this, a game for fish?
Those are personal FOV settings. You can play without such high FOV.
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Post by wndrbr »

I vote Underrail for solo turn-based DRPG combat.

"first-person action combat" needs to be split into "first-person melee action combat" and "first-person ranged action combat". Melee - Dark Messiah, ranged - Fallout 4.
Last edited by wndrbr on March 27th, 2024, 01:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Protean »

ArcaneLurker wrote: March 26th, 2024, 21:29
Best first-person action combat?


Not an RPG, but the combat should be in one.
Its nauseating.
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Post by Tweed »

Knights of the Chalice (2) is the best turn-based grid combat, anyone who disagrees must be put away from this place.
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Post by TKVNC »

M&B Warband has some of the best 1st and 3rd person action combat.

Every part of it is pretty much better than most of it's competition, archery is good, mounted combat is good, melee is good, with mods like Viking Conquest it's also got a lot of improved features too, shield bash and such.

Viking Conquest also has remarkably good naval combat too.
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Post by ArcaneLurker »

Protean wrote: March 27th, 2024, 02:13
ArcaneLurker wrote: March 26th, 2024, 21:29
Best first-person action combat?


Not an RPG, but the combat should be in one.
Its nauseating.
Skill issue.

Here's more
Last edited by ArcaneLurker on March 27th, 2024, 11:31, edited 1 time in total.
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