How degnerate were ancient romans and greeks?

[Emphyrio]

Casual pederasty (sexual relations between adult men and little boys) was tolerated, that was pretty much it.

Eh not really...

Once again, like with Latin, it's the case of considering a few pieces of text as somehow more representative of the general culture because nowadays, modern people, give value to those ancient authors. That was far from being the generalized idea tho.

Both in Greek and in Latin the word pederast is considered an offense. Majority of time we find the actual, factual word used, it's usually in condemnation of someone. Either moral or, in the case of the Romans, legal reprisal. For over 700 years since the early kingdom all manifestations of homosexuality were deemed illegal, not even slaves could be abused in homosexual practices and relationships.

this sounds pretty gay:


Now there was a certain Olynthian, named Episthenes; he was a great lover of boys, and seeing a handsome lad, just in the bloom of youth, and carrying a light shield, about to be slain, he ran up to Xenophon and supplicated him to rescue the fair youth. Xenophon went to Seuthes and begged him not to put the boy to death. He explained to him the disposition of Episthenes; how he had once enrolled a company, the only qualification required being that of personal beauty; and with these handsome young men at his side there were none so brave as he. Seuthes put the question, "Would you like to die on his behalf, Episthenes?" whereat the other stretched out his neck, and said, "Strike, if the boy bids you, and will thank his preserver." Seuthes, turning to the boy, asked, "Shall I smite him instead of you?" The boy shook his head, imploring him to slay neither the one nor the other, whereupon Episthenes caught the lad in his arms, exclaiming, "It is time you did battle with me, Seuthes, for my boy; never will I yield him up," and Seuthes laughed: "what must be must," and so consented.

[Ratcatcher]

Yes it does. And it's the work of a single person. Which could or could not be true (unless you also believe each time asf calls someone a faggot this causes the subject to switch sides) and is definitely a thousand times more catchy than a fragment from a juridicial process condemning a man that abused his slaves.

You will notice that if you limit yourself to authors talking about their own homosexual experiences, the sample size shrinks to truly minuscule proportions, considered the number of times Romans called each other faggot as an insult. They still do.

Edit: did you create a new thread or was our own sperging considered too much and split as to not derail dat other thread?

[Nammu Archag]

They were only degenerate when they were on the verge of collapse

[rusty_shackleford]

I find it odd to condemn something if nobody around you is doing much of it, and Christians were doing a whole lot of homosexuality condemnation in the 4th & early 5th century.

[Anon]

They were only degenerate when they were on the verge of collapse

It's the inverse in the cause-consequence relation (seems to be a constant in empires ruining btw, now it's USA next in the queue, sorry americans)

[Ratcatcher]

Not on the verge, no. The later part of the Empire definitely saw an increase in homosexual practices. The point is, precisely like today, the nevralgic centers of libtardism are the places where such phenomenon are more frequent, the same happened back then.

Rome was literally handing over grain and salt to its citizens just because they were citizens of Rome. Gibsmedat is another form of degeneracy that frequently hits empires in their twilight, as is an excess of tolerance towards sexual practices.

edit:

homosexuality condemnation in the 4th & early 5th century.

the Roman Empire lasted a whole lot of time my fren. Again, for the first 700 years, homosexuality was lawfully banned. No one is denying that, when it started degenerating, degeneracy was rampant.

[asf]

let me condemn fags in this very forum

[Ratcatcher]

let me condemn fags in this very forum

Ask Rusty if we can have this as a button.

[asf]

@rusty_shackleford every very prestigious forum has fag as a button

[TKVNC]

Very, and also not very.

Homosexuality was illegal in Ancient Rome, and punishable by death.

[BobT]

Couple of vids from Metatron on the subject:

► Videos

He usually seems to be pretty well read.

[Gregz]

[ArcaneLurker]

Now there was a certain Olynthian, named Episthenes; he was a great lover of boys, and seeing a handsome lad, just in the bloom of youth, and carrying a light shield, about to be slain, he ran up to Xenophon and supplicated him to rescue the fair youth. Xenophon went to Seuthes and begged him not to put the boy to death. He explained to him the disposition of Episthenes; how he had once enrolled a company, the only qualification required being that of personal beauty; and with these handsome young men at his side there were none so brave as he. Seuthes put the question, "Would you like to die on his behalf, Episthenes?" whereat the other stretched out his neck, and said, "Strike, if the boy bids you, and will thank his preserver." Seuthes, turning to the boy, asked, "Shall I smite him instead of you?" The boy shook his head, imploring him to slay neither the one nor the other, whereupon Episthenes caught the lad in his arms, exclaiming, "It is time you did battle with me, Seuthes, for my boy; never will I yield him up," and Seuthes laughed: "what must be must," and so consented.

I can not imagine a modern day faggot being so heroic.

[Element]

I find it odd to condemn something if nobody around you is doing much of it, and Christians were doing a whole lot of homosexuality condemnation in the 4th & early 5th century.

What about racism today?

[rusty_shackleford]

I find it odd to condemn something if nobody around you is doing much of it, and Christians were doing a whole lot of homosexuality condemnation in the 4th & early 5th century.

What about racism today?

Lots of racism towards whites happening, yes.

[Vergil]

I find it odd to condemn something if nobody around you is doing much of it, and Christians were doing a whole lot of homosexuality condemnation in the 4th & early 5th century.

I think a lot of Christianity's ability to get mass appeal was that the average person was disgusted by homosexual activity that was largely being committed by degenerated elites (much like today) that the Roman religion was not adequate in addressing (and seeing as religious positions in that religion were very much made up of that degenerated social elite, that may have been by design).

[ArcaneLurker]

The worshippers of the Great Mother/ Cybele engaged in homosexuality, as well as trooning themselves out with special castration clamps, and if homosexuality was not an issue Philo would have been preaching to the choir.

When Rome was strong, they primarily worshipped Jupiter and Mars, the Romans hated human sacrifice because of their worship of Jupiter-- and then when they started worshipping weird Eastern inspired Gods, more & more, things went down hill. Or rather, the Semitic Gods & tendencies followed the Semitic people, after the globohomo Imperial expansion incorporated them into the pool of civilians. Even Mithra, I have seen depicted as both male and female, and it's a cult that involves secrecy & oaths.

[Irenaeus]

Many Greek philosophers were very gay/nihilists. For example, the Cyrenaics and their Epicurian offshots.
Also a lot of poets were gay/degenerates. For example, Augustus had to exile Ovid to Moesia because he wouldn't stop with writing about sex and whores, very subversive shit.
These antisocial, dead-end irreligious practices would permeate weak links in the elite but also in the middle class bureaucracy and even the military, leading to the weakening of both civilizations in the long term.

What could have been:





Instead, you got this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cours ... paintings)