Baldur's Gate 3 isn't an RPG

[pieface]

You’re a pilgrim travelling to [HOLY SITE].

I don't want to travel to the holy site.

So you pick a different starting option or abandon and explore and do other quests

[rusty_shackleford]

what if I didn't like the quest in bg3 so I installed a different game instead with a quest I liked?

[pieface]

Frankly, all of your ideas are really gay.

main quests are gay

[Vergil]

Notice his complete and utter lack of mention of game mechanics? This is essentially the same as modern bioware type fags who think RPG is when you go around and talk to people and occasionally get a different colored speech options and think the gameplay is inconsequential.

[Dead]

I find it difficult to care about games' stories or settings that are longer than one sentence.

[Slavic Sorcerer]

Can't tell if this opinion is a poe or just ignorance
By this list any DnD campaign is not an RPG, because campaigns by nature have certain story to be followed

The parasite is plot hook. A good one IMO
Anyone even remotely connected to TTRPG knows plot hook is important for the campaing

Your character exist in the world and does their own thing
Bards sing in taverns, Rangers hunt poachers, Clerics pray, Paladins smash undead, Wizards study grimoires, etc.

Plot hook appears; something that drags your character out of their routine
Regardless of what your character might have been doing before the events in BG3, they are dragged into the plot by being kidnapped by Mind Flayers, and being one of the very few that didnt succumb to the parasite day one

Now, the stakes
Youre going to die if you dont get rid of the parasite
The stakes are there to motivate the player to go on their journey further

In the background, the mystery
Why didnt you turn into Mind Flayer?
After attempting at parasite removal, why is it modified with magic?
Who is the mysterious person that saves you from turning into a Mind Flayer at the darkest hour?
And many more

You can end your own story however you like, and the ending is also partially influenced by your companions
Turn into a Mind Flayer, take control over the world, sacrifice yourself etc etc

BG3 campaign is much better than whatever Solasta has, cause there youre locked into being a goodie-two-shoes, choices really dont matter, and your only motivation is stopping the invasion; no personal stakes or anything

What OP describes as RPG is just open world sandbox with factions

[Oyster Sauce]

This sounds like a pre-written backstory, driving force behind the plot, and main quest to me...

That's one starting option. You can pick from many and abandon your starting quest whenever you want.

First DAO playthrough? Human Noble
Modded DAO playthrough? Human Noble
Future DAO playthrough where I play Awakening? Human Noble

[fkirenicus]

Isn"t this the same guy that insisted women shouldn't be members in adventuring parties the other day? Still trolling strong low?

[pieface]

Notice his complete and utter lack of mention of game mechanics? This is essentially the same as modern bioware type fags who think RPG is when you go around and talk to people and occasionally get a different colored speech options and think the gameplay is inconsequential.

I'm discussing player choice in relation to game narrative and genre, not gameplay mechanics beyond that.

[rusty_shackleford]

This sounds like a pre-written backstory, driving force behind the plot, and main quest to me...

That's one starting option. You can pick from many and abandon your starting quest whenever you want.

First DAO playthrough? Human Noble
Modded DAO playthrough? Human Noble
Future DAO playthrough where I play Awakening? Human Noble

There's a reason bioware didn't do it again, telemetry probably showed that >80% of players were human noble or mage.

[Slavic Sorcerer]

Isn"t this the same guy that insisted women shouldn't be members in adventuring parties the other day? Still trolling strong low?

I think he is, thats why I cant tell if it's a poe or not

[rusty_shackleford]

he's right about the woman thing

[Slavic Sorcerer]

That's one starting option. You can pick from many and abandon your starting quest whenever you want.

First DAO playthrough? Human Noble
Modded DAO playthrough? Human Noble
Future DAO playthrough where I play Awakening? Human Noble

There's a reason bioware didn't do it again, telemetry probably showed that >80% of players were human noble or mage.

Yeah
Although I'll never forgive Bioware for not including Spirit and Blood magics in Inquisition, no matter how hot Iron Bull is fun it was to play as an Inquisitor

[pieface]

What OP describes as RPG is just open world sandbox with factions

You presume that you can't have plot hooks without a main quest for some reason.

If you have multiple starting options and quests, you have multiple plot hooks that are optional. This provides a more flexible roleplaying experience because you're not stuck as 'the chosen one' or 'an infested loser'

[Vergil]

I'm discussing player choice in relation to game narrative and genre, not gameplay mechanics beyond that.

Gameplay mechanics are what make a game an RPG the narrative is largely inconsequential.

[Xenich]

Its am RPG because its a Role you play, and its a game... so its a "Role Playing Game" /derp /derp /derp *chuckle*

Seriously though, RPG's as I knew them were always about the systems of developing a character and managing those systems specifically within the world to succeed. The development of the character was the point. Where I saw it get... confusing is when Diablo came out and then we got into layers of arguments about what constitutes focus on character development leading to sub terms like "Action/RPG" and later it became anything that had a stat on it, regardless if it were required for success.

I think in my opinion, the key in really determining if it is an RPG would be if the games outcomes are entirely (or mostly) dependent on that development. For instance, I technically don't view many games like the souls series to be really RPGs because there are numerous cases where a player can forego the character development, and through sheer physical arcade style play, beat the encounters (naked level 1 runs).

I think that for it to be traditionally and focused as an RPG, the characters development should determine the success and be the main focus of play. If your statistics are not to a level to succeed, it is impossible to continue with that approach. Certainly this has exceptions in examples, but the point is the focus on the characters numerous elements of statistics that is tested in the world they exist to excel. Sure, you can get generic and start claiming power bars are statistics, but it is missing the point... in those types of games, action is the element of focus (ie the players physical skill).

I think the best RPG systems are the ones where no amount of player physical ability outside of intellect through strategy of play can succeed in the system (ie a level 1 mage can not over power the dice rolls, or circumvent the reality of the system).

I honestly think that has always been the basis to what an Role Playing "Game" was and seems to follow in line with what Gygax had envisioned this style of game to be.

[pieface]

I'm discussing player choice in relation to game narrative and genre, not gameplay mechanics beyond that.

Gameplay mechanics are what make a game an RPG the narrative is largely inconsequential.

What gameplay mechanics beyond those that I've mentioned (the ability to choose unique starting locations and quests) do you want to discuss?

[A Chinese opium den]

I'm discussing player choice in relation to game narrative and genre, not gameplay mechanics beyond that.

Gameplay mechanics are what make a game an RPG the narrative is largely inconsequential.

What gameplay mechanics beyond those that I've mentioned (the ability to choose unique starting locations and quests) do you want to discuss?

Would a visual novel be less or more of an rpg than bg3 if it has everything you have listed in it?

[Slavic Sorcerer]

What OP describes as RPG is just open world sandbox with factions

You presume that you can't have plot hooks without a main quest for some reason.

If you have multiple starting options and quests, you have multiple plot hooks that are optional. This provides a more flexible roleplaying experience because you're not stuck as 'the chosen one' or 'an infested loser'

>optional plothooks

Yeah, I was right on the money
Your definition of an RPG is a sandbox (doing whatever you want, when you want, how you want) with no stakes, no purpose, just doing random shit that interests you at the time
And it has to have EVERY POSSIBLE CHOICE to truly make it an RPG

No video game will ever meet those standards. A TTRPG at most with a GM that will allow for all your bullshit and thinks of long reaching consequences on the spot
But even in that regard it's already limited, because unless your friend is an AI from 50 years into the future, it's impossible for a human being to do so

Let's say, for the sake of your argument, that BG3 isn't an RPG, and only your opinion is the definition

It would be impossible to make such a video game that meets those standards and all of the possibilities you can start, play, and finish the game the way you want
And even if by some miracle, you'll sacrifice quality for the sake of quantity

Lets take the city from your example
There are hundreds of ways to start your journey in a city

A hobo, a widow/er, a divorcee, a buisness owner, a doctor, a noble, a high noble, a gentry, a priest, an altar servant...
I could go on and on
And I'm not taking family, friends, their ages, their professions, backstories etc etch into the account

"But the story is about me so we dont have to include the family" then it's not an RPG by your definitions
By your definition, if there's a limited pool of those starting points, quests, factions, endings, flavours, ways to play - it's already not an RPG

Same goes for plothooks, and it's even worse because every plothook needs to be written with ALL POSSIBLE CHOICES into account

My point is: youre entitled to your opinion, of course, but what your opinion truly is is just an impossible standard no game will ever meet

[Slavic Sorcerer]

Its am RPG because its a Role you play, and its a game... so its a "Role Playing Game" /derp /derp /derp *chuckle*

Seriously though, RPG's as I knew them were always about the systems of developing a character and managing those systems specifically within the world to succeed. The development of the character was the point. Where I saw it get... confusing is when Diablo came out and then we got into layers of arguments about what constitutes focus on character development leading to sub terms like "Action/RPG" and later it became anything that had a stat on it, regardless if it were required for success.

I think in my opinion, the key in really determining if it is an RPG would be if the games outcomes are entirely (or mostly) dependent on that development. For instance, I technically don't view many games like the souls series to be really RPGs because there are numerous cases where a player can forego the character development, and through sheer physical arcade style play, beat the encounters (naked level 1 runs).

I think that for it to be traditionally and focused as an RPG, the characters development should determine the success and be the main focus of play. If your statistics are not to a level to succeed, it is impossible to continue with that approach. Certainly this has exceptions in examples, but the point is the focus on the characters numerous elements of statistics that is tested in the world they exist to excel. Sure, you can get generic and start claiming power bars are statistics, but it is missing the point... in those types of games, action is the element of focus (ie the players physical skill).

I think the best RPG systems are the ones where no amount of player physical ability outside of intellect through strategy of play can succeed in the system (ie a level 1 mage can not over power the dice rolls, or circumvent the reality of the system).

I honestly think that has always been the basis to what an Role Playing "Game" was and seems to follow in line with what Gygax had envisioned this style of game to be.

Exactly

Even Call of Cthulhu is an RPG, despite not having magical classes or whatnot
You can start as a rabbi, a priest, or mechanic, or anything really
Your statistics will help or hinder getting to the truth of the story. That's why parties are made up usually from several different players playing as different backgrounds

I iike when games take my class into account, even if it's just a flavour
Like in GW2 sometimes NPCs during the story will remark on me being a Mesmer

My TT DnD was vastly different when I played as Bard from when I played as a Cleric, and I'm not talking about combat where I always am the healer, buffer, and debuffer
Bard is Jack of all trades. I was the face of the party and had the best chances to lockpick a lock, while my Cleric was more perceptive and knowledgeable in the religion and arcane

My Bard developed into a Sorcerer through multiclassing, becoming a better healer and buffer for the party
As Cleric, on the other hand, I increased his Charisma over time to be the face of the party and be better at deception and persuasion, already making a difference through that alone in how the campaign was going

[Vergil]

The industry is so over saturated with marketing gimmicks and fluff that "people" have mistaken that with substance and the true core of the genre.

[Red7]

Skyrim isn't and RPG either btw.

ye but its pretty good porn platform. unlike gay bear 3

[Xenich]

Its am RPG because its a Role you play, and its a game... so its a "Role Playing Game" /derp /derp /derp *chuckle*

Seriously though, RPG's as I knew them were always about the systems of developing a character and managing those systems specifically within the world to succeed. The development of the character was the point. Where I saw it get... confusing is when Diablo came out and then we got into layers of arguments about what constitutes focus on character development leading to sub terms like "Action/RPG" and later it became anything that had a stat on it, regardless if it were required for success.

I think in my opinion, the key in really determining if it is an RPG would be if the games outcomes are entirely (or mostly) dependent on that development. For instance, I technically don't view many games like the souls series to be really RPGs because there are numerous cases where a player can forego the character development, and through sheer physical arcade style play, beat the encounters (naked level 1 runs).

I think that for it to be traditionally and focused as an RPG, the characters development should determine the success and be the main focus of play. If your statistics are not to a level to succeed, it is impossible to continue with that approach. Certainly this has exceptions in examples, but the point is the focus on the characters numerous elements of statistics that is tested in the world they exist to excel. Sure, you can get generic and start claiming power bars are statistics, but it is missing the point... in those types of games, action is the element of focus (ie the players physical skill).

I think the best RPG systems are the ones where no amount of player physical ability outside of intellect through strategy of play can succeed in the system (ie a level 1 mage can not over power the dice rolls, or circumvent the reality of the system).

I honestly think that has always been the basis to what an Role Playing "Game" was and seems to follow in line with what Gygax had envisioned this style of game to be.

Exactly

Even Call of Cthulhu is an RPG, despite not having magical classes or whatnot
You can start as a rabbi, a priest, or mechanic, or anything really
Your statistics will help or hinder getting to the truth of the story. That's why parties are made up usually from several different players playing as different backgrounds

I iike when games take my class into account, even if it's just a flavour
Like in GW2 sometimes NPCs during the story will remark on me being a Mesmer

My TT DnD was vastly different when I played as Bard from when I played as a Cleric, and I'm not talking about combat where I always am the healer, buffer, and debuffer
Bard is Jack of all trades. I was the face of the party and had the best chances to lockpick a lock, while my Cleric was more perceptive and knowledgeable in the religion and arcane

My Bard developed into a Sorcerer through multiclassing, becoming a better healer and buffer for the party
As Cleric, on the other hand, I increased his Charisma over time to be the face of the party and be better at deception and persuasion, already making a difference through that alone in how the campaign was going

Yes, that is the base of it, but I think the real key component is what the game requires for success. The stats are not there for flavor, they exist specifically to force a test in play. That is, if your statistics do not meet the requirements of the encounter, you fail and no amount of play (outside of exploit) will allow a success. A level 1 fighter can not beat a much higher level fighter. It is impossible statistically (outside of critical rolls of impossibility). This forces the entire encounter to be driven by the choices you made in development of your character. It is why a lot of the old gold box games, if you built a party wrong, they could not succeed because they were poorly designed. The characters statistics were tested against the environment and were not to a level that is needed for success.

I think that is the true core aspect of what an RPG is, then you add a story to give direction and purpose to the game and you have Role Playing Game (and not simply a board game of statistical encounters).

[Red7]

Isn"t this the same guy that insisted women shouldn't be members in adventuring parties the other day? Still trolling strong low?

no way he said that. why not have cocksleeve sperm toilet in your party to rape and use as stress relief bag for savage beatings?

[Red7]

Isn"t this the same guy that insisted women shouldn't be members in adventuring parties the other day? Still trolling strong low?

I think he is, thats why I cant tell if it's a poe or not

no wonder u cant tell. its typical issue with fags. hard to see anything with eyes full of jism and cock dangling in front of face.

kinda limited perspective.

[fkirenicus]

Isn"t this the same guy that insisted women shouldn't be members in adventuring parties the other day? Still trolling strong low?

no way he said that. why not have cocksleeve sperm toilet in your party to rape and use as stress relief bag for savage beatings?

In the profound and philosophical corner today, I see?

[Acrux]

/derp /derp /derp *chuckle*

Stop doing this stuff. It's annoying. You've already been notified once about it.

[Xenich]

/derp /derp /derp *chuckle*

Stop doing this stuff. It's annoying. You've already been notified once about it.

Maybe if you ask please a bunch of times, then throw a tantrum and start using all caps, I may consider it.

Nope. /smile

edit:
Did I hurt some feelings?

Acrux, you kind of came off as the whiny babies on steam who thrown tantrums and demand people only post in a manner that befits them (ie complaining about length of post, emotes, etc..), so you can see how I think of it as.. well.. a bit narcists?

Why is it so annoying? Maybe first start with a legitimate explanation other than "it upsets" me, and I might consider it. That said, I must have missed the initial objection to it, so maybe it was explained there. This is the way I type emotes from my mudding days. It always stuck with me, and I hate having to learn a bunch of stupid emote codes to describe something when a slash/text can more accurately present my message and it type fast.

So if you have an honest reason as to why, and it isn't something like "personal taste", then maybe I will understand.

So is it?

[Vergil]

Are you gay?

[fkirenicus]

Are you gay?

"Daaaaaahling, I thought you'd never ask!"