Baldur's Gate 3 isn't an RPG

[pieface]

Baldur's Gate 3 claims to be all about 'player choice' but where it matters, provides basically none.

You cannot 'roleplay' outside of the context of the main quest because the main quest dominates everything about your character story.

You are forcibly infested.

You are going to die.

You must save everyone.

It's so hilarious to observe AAA studios try to make RPGs and market themselves on player choice, then immediately limit their players to what is basically rails with minor deviations.

No unique starting locations based on race

No factions

No ability to avoid the main quest (you'll die)

I think it's just painfully clear that the standards for RPG and choice have fallen so far, that the definition now seems lost on everyone.

Skyrim isn't and RPG either btw.

[rusty_shackleford]

RPGs have nothing to do with choice and consequence, btw.
Unless you can find me some of that in Wizardry & Ultima, then I'll concede.

[pieface]

Choice is a fundamental part of RPGs. Narrative choice is most fundamental.

Main quests are antithetical to RPGs. If you disagree you have wonky brain from years of bad 'RPGs'

[rusty_shackleford]

Choice is a fundamental part of RPGs. Narrative choice is most fundamental.

Main quests are antithetical to RPGs. If you disagree you have wonky brain from years of bad 'RPGs'

You seem to have mistaken RPG for CYOAs.

[pieface]

I believe the split in genre is a degeneration fostered by modern game dev, and that true roleplaying requires the ability to choose your own adventure

[BlastedAgain]

Baldur's Gate 3 claims to be all about 'player choice' but where it matters, provides basically none.

You cannot 'roleplay' outside of the context of the main quest because the main quest dominates everything about your character story.

You are forcibly infested.

You are going to die.

You must save everyone.

It's so hilarious to observe AAA studios try to make RPGs and market themselves on player choice, then immediately limit their players to what is basically rails with minor deviations.

No unique starting locations based on race

No factions

No ability to avoid the main quest (you'll die)

I think it's just painfully clear that the standards for RPG and choice have fallen so far, that the definition now seems lost on everyone.

Skyrim isn't and RPG either btw.

My favorite way to play Skyrim is to just never do the dragonstone quest in Whiterun, that way dragons never spawn, there's no mention of dragonborn or people recognizing you, you're no one special. That makes it feel very RPG to me even in your terms. Also use a modded start but even in vanilla there's nothing tying you down to specific role.

[rusty_shackleford]

I believe the split in genre is a degeneration fostered by modern game dev, and that true roleplaying requires the ability to choose your own adventure

RPGs didn't get CYOA mechanics until the late 90s, and it has been all downhill since then.

[Oyster Sauce]

There's nothing I love more than sitting down to play The Dungeons of Goblinstan with a group of friends and then insisting we all ignore the dungeons to go sail across the sea fighting krakens

[rusty_shackleford]

Going to build a time machine to take that whore back and seduce avellone, accuse him of rape, and prevent him of ever making planetscape tournament and forever ruining the genre.

[pieface]

There's nothing I love more than sitting down to play The Dungeons of Goblinstan with a group of friends and then insisting we all ignore the dungeons to go sail across the sea fighting krakens

The whole point of games as a medium is that we can accommodate this level of player choice

[rusty_shackleford]

You get to choose whether to use magic missile or attack with your weapon.

[Vergil]

OP has no idea what RPG means.

[Boontaker]

Yea but have you considered this?

"Players" like "voters" are retarded. Choice is irrelevant, gameplay and vibes are all that matters

[pieface]

OP has no idea what RPG means.

You can't meaningfully roleplay outside of the context of forced infestation, so it isn't a meaningful RPG is it? Main quests are antithetical to RPGs

[Vergil]

OP has no idea what RPG means.

You can't meaningfully roleplay outside of the context of forced infestation, so it isn't a meaningful RPG is it? Main quests are antithetical to RPGs

See what I mean?

[Jordy]

Baldur's Gate 3 claims to be all about 'player choice' but where it matters, provides basically none.

You cannot 'roleplay' outside of the context of the main quest because the main quest dominates everything about your character story.

You are forcibly infested.

You are going to die.

You must save everyone.

It's so hilarious to observe AAA studios try to make RPGs and market themselves on player choice, then immediately limit their players to what is basically rails with minor deviations.

No unique starting locations based on race

No factions

No ability to avoid the main quest (you'll die)

I think it's just painfully clear that the standards for RPG and choice have fallen so far, that the definition now seems lost on everyone.

Skyrim isn't and RPG either btw.

How would you fix Baldur's Gate 3 to make it an RPG in your terms? What would you change specifically?

[pieface]

How would you fix Baldur's Gate 3 to make it an RPG in your terms? What would you change specifically?

No main quest, instead, multiple unique factions and reputation systems with branching questlines
Multiple unique starting locations based on race and character creation choice
Better racial differentiation

Imagine choosing to start the game as a 'street beggar' and having a unique starting location in the city and quest line as a result.

[rusty_shackleford]

How would you fix Baldur's Gate 3 to make it an RPG in your terms? What would you change specifically?

No main quest, instead, multiple unique factions and reputation systems with branching questlines
Multiple unique starting locations based on race and character creation choice
Better racial differentiation

Imagine choosing to start the game as a 'street beggar' and having a unique starting location in the city and quest line as a result.

so what do you do once you get the reputation?

[Oyster Sauce]

"ok, so your adventure begins in the Leaping Lizards Tavern"
"NO! I want to be a HOBO covered in my own SHIT!"

[Dead]

None of the things suggested would improve gameplay in any way

[Vergil]

How would you fix Baldur's Gate 3 to make it an RPG in your terms? What would you change specifically?

No main quest, instead, multiple unique factions and reputation systems with branching questlines
Multiple unique starting locations based on race and character creation choice
Better racial differentiation

Imagine choosing to start the game as a 'street beggar' and having a unique starting location in the city and quest line as a result.

All flavor with no inherent RPG qualities btw
Pretty much all tabletop RPGs have a main quest you run through, all CRPGs have a main quest you run through, and even most MMORPGs have a main questline. Baldurs Gate 3 has racial differentiation in mechanics and stats. Having some gay Fallout 3 tier opening where you blow dudes for crack money or whatever depending on your backstory would just be annoying meaningless flavor.
Player choice in narratives is an optional game mechanic that got popular but it's no more inherent to RPGs than saying you have to have wizards, swords, and elves or its not an RPG.

[pieface]

so what do you do once you get the reputation?

Well reputation systems are a whole other discussion, but do you mean when you complete a particular faction questline?

You'd be free to do whatever you want. Continue roleplaying as a character within that faction/quest or progress your story onto other questlines or activities. There wouldn't be an endgame scenario in the traditional sense.

[rusty_shackleford]

so what do you do once you get the reputation?

Well reputation systems are a whole other discussion, but do you mean when you complete a particular faction questline?

You'd be free to do whatever you want. Continue roleplaying as a character within that faction/quest or progress your story onto other questlines or activities. There wouldn't be an endgame scenario in the traditional sense.

what makes me care about the factions?
having a worm in your head that's eating your brain makes you care about it btw

[Vergil]

so what do you do once you get the reputation?

Well reputation systems are a whole other discussion, but do you mean when you complete a particular faction questline?

You'd be free to do whatever you want. Continue roleplaying as a character within that faction/quest or progress your story onto other questlines or activities. There wouldn't be an endgame scenario in the traditional sense.

Not every game has to be Morrowind and this part of Morrowinds structure has nothing to do with RPGs. Ghost Recon Breakpoint let's me do missions in an open world for various factions to increase my reputation with them and upgrade my stats/gear all while ignoring the main quest if I want. You even get to customize your character too! Does that make it more of an RPG than BG3?

[pieface]

what makes me care about the factions?
having a worm in your head that's eating your brain makes you care about it btw

PILGRIM

You’re a pilgrim travelling to [HOLY SITE]. You’ll have the opportunity to:

Pick a major religion and serve your chosen god
Travel to the holy sites of [WORLD] and pay homage/pray.
Gain powerful buffs for each holy site you reach.
Engage in religious war
Call upon your god for help

INITIAL QUESTs

You’re a member of [RELIGION]. Travel to [HOLY SITE]. Pray and pay homage.

You'd become invested depending on the quality of the writing within each quest line, basically.

[rusty_shackleford]

You’re a pilgrim travelling to [HOLY SITE].

I don't want to travel to the holy site.

[Dead]

Frankly, all of your ideas are really gay.

[Boontaker]

You'd become invested depending on the quality of the writing within each quest line, basically

What year do you think it is? White men are not allowed to write anymore

[Vergil]

You’re a pilgrim travelling to [HOLY SITE]. You’ll have the opportunity to:

What if I want to play as the three breasted woman from Total Recall who can breathe fire and thinks religion is le bad? Are you denying me, the player, my ability to choose how I take a runny dump all over your narrative with my shitty ideas?

Travel to the holy sites of [WORLD] and pay homage/pray.

This sounds like a pre-written backstory, driving force behind the plot, and main quest to me...

[pieface]

This sounds like a pre-written backstory, driving force behind the plot, and main quest to me...

That's one starting option. You can pick from many and abandon your starting quest whenever you want.