Do you love your enemies?

[loregamer]

Got a question for my Catholic bros. Do you guys love your enemies like Jesus commanded us to?

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Scripture

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Luke 6:27-30

To you who are ready for the truth, I say this: Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the supple moves of prayer for that person. If someone slaps you in the face, stand there and take it. If someone grabs your shirt, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. If someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more payback. Live generously.

Matthew 18:21-35

[rusty_shackleford]

No.
While I may be the most perfect person to ever live after Jesus, even I still have flaws.

[ArcaneLurker]

Actual love is favouritism. It's what motivates a person to prioritise someone over another-- do you prioritise your enemies over your family?
I think the only thing it's asking for is a baseline respect for all life, so that you don't treat your enemies the same way they may treat you.

But I'm not a Catholic, so what does this heretic know?

[rusty_shackleford]

Also, despite English having words with both latin and german roots, it does lack words to properly represent different kinds of love. Agape doesn't directly translate to 'love', we just lack a word for it.

[WhiteShark]

People these days tend to confuse love with endorsement or tolerance, but loving your enemies means neither. Just as a loving parent spanks his child to correct him, love demands that one oppose his enemies' wickedness—with force, if necessary. Love is patient with personal affronts but unwavering in the defense of others. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

I'm sure I don't love my enemies as I should, but I find it very easy to pity them. They don't seem to realize how this is all going to play out, or the sort of afterlives they're storing up for themselves.

[ManOTheWest]

As others have pointed out, I think it really depends on what considers the definition of love to be, and the context in which it is applied.

For example, in any war, I would say soldiers that have respect and reverence for their enemy combatants have 'love' for them. If the enemy dead in battle are treated with respect and dealt with properly (according to the customs of the dead) post-mortem, then I would say this constitutes showing an appropriate level of love for your enemies.

[Xenich]

Read on, what does the rest say? What about Matthew 10?

See, the question you sought an answer to was already answered if you simply read through the rest of the chapters of Mathew.

Picking and choosing will suit your argument, but it won't attend to the truth of the word.

The Twelve Apostles
10 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;[a] 4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles
5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’[c] 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers,[d] cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. 9 Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, 10 no bag for your journey, or two tunics[e] or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. 11 And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. 12 As you enter the house, greet it. 13 And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. 15 Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Persecution Will Come
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant[f] above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign[g] those of his household.

Have No Fear
26 “So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[h] 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Rewards
40 “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. 41 The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and the one who receives a righteous person because he is a righteous person will receive a righteous person's reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.”

[ArcaneLurker]

in any war

Not really. Depends on the people of the era and location.
Even amongst Europeans, there were a lot of mercenaries barely better than bandits.

[madbringer]

Got a question for my Catholic bros. Do you guys love your enemies like Jesus commanded us to?

---

Scripture

Matthew 5:43-48

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 18:21-35

No, I hate my enemies and want them to die horribly. Preferably in a fire.

[Anon]

People these days tend to confuse love with endorsement or tolerance, but loving your enemies means neither. Just as a loving parent spanks his child to correct him, love demands that one oppose his enemies' wickedness—with force, if necessary. Love is patient with personal affronts but unwavering in the defense of others. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

I'm sure I don't love my enemies as I should, but I find it very easy to pity them. They don't seem to realize how this is all going to play out, or the sort of afterlives they're storing up for themselves.

Jesus also says:

Luke 6:27-30 The Message (MSG)
“To you who are ready for the truth, I say this: Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the supple moves of prayer for that person. If someone slaps you in the face, stand there and take it. If someone grabs your shirt, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. If someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more payback. Live generously.

What do you make of this line?

[loregamer]

Picking and choosing will suit your argument, but it won't attend to the truth of the word.

I'm actually asking a genuine inquiry because I didn't get into Catholicism until last year. I think y'all can tell from my modding shenanigans recently I haven't been good at practicing this

But I attended Mass for the first time and got baptized this year so still new to this. Was wondering what you guys thought of this particular bit of Christianity

[loregamer]

I think the only thing it's asking for is a baseline respect for all life, so that you don't treat your enemies the same way they may treat you.

Wouldn't Jesus's teachings go further than that and say we need to react with compassion and pray for them?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Jesus washed the feet of his friends and the future priesthood. He didn't wash the feet of the pharisees or Herod or the men who spat on him.

I would wish all would turn to the Lord and their eternal souls saved, but I'm not going to prostrate myself before people who hate me and want to kill me.

[ArcaneLurker]

I think the only thing it's asking for is a baseline respect for all life, so that you don't treat your enemies the same way they may treat you.

Wouldn't Jesus's teachings go further than that and say we need to react with compassion and pray for them?

That is part of the baseline. If you don't pray for them, you're not showing them respect as someone that God wants to be redeemed.
Although I have to point out that Israelites weren't told to pray for Canaanites, they were told to kill & enslave them, and drive them out of their homeland.
So maybe "enemy" could also have different meanings.

[WhiteShark]

What do you make of this versicle?

I make of it this:

Love is patient with personal affronts

Jesus meant what He said, but note that it is all about things being done to you. None of that is a command to stand idly by while your brother is harmed. That would have been contrary to Scripture:

Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

I think St. Cyril puts it best:

When St. Cyril Equal-to-the-Apostles was sent by the Patriarch of Constantinople to preach the gospel among the Saracens, in their capital city he had to enter into a dispute about faith with Muhamaddan scholars. Among others, they asked him:

“Your God is Christ. He commanded you to pray for enemies, to do good to those who hate and persecute you and to offer the other cheek to those who hit you, but what do you actually do? If anyone offends you, you sharpen your sword and go into battle and kill. Why do you not obey your Christ?”

Having heard this, St. Cyril asked his fellow-polemists:

“If there are two commandments written in one law, who will be its best respecter—the one who obeys only one commandment or the one who obeys both?”

When the Hagerenes said that the best respecter of law is the one who obeys both commandments, the holy preacher continued:

“Christ is our God Who ordered us to pray for our offenders and to do good to them. He also said that no one of us can show greater love in life than he who gives his life for his friends (Jn. 15:3). That is why we generously endure offences caused us as private people. But in company we defend one another and give our lives in battle for our neighbours, so that you, having taken our fellows prisoners, could not imprison their souls together with their bodies by forcing them into renouncing their faith and into godless deeds. Our Christ-loving soldiers protect our Holy Church with arms in their hands. They safeguard the sovereign in whose sacred person they respect the image of the rule of the Heavenly King. They safeguard their land because with its fall the home authority will inevitably fall too and the evangelical faith will be shaken. These are precious pledges for which soldiers should fight to the last. And if they give their lives in battlefield, the Church will include them in the community of the holy martyrs and call them intercessors before God.”

[WhiteShark]

they were told to kill & enslave them

They were told not to enslave them, but to destroy them completely. It was a grave sin that the Israelites chose to enslave some instead and it caused them endless troubles down the line, culminating in the loss of the northern kingdom.

[ArcaneLurker]

they were told to kill & enslave them

They were told not to enslave them, but to destroy them completely. It was a grave sin that the Israelites chose to enslave some instead and it caused them endless troubles down the line, culminating in the loss of the northern kingdom.

They were told to enslave the very young ones.

[Acrux]

Definitely not as much as I should.

As @WhiteShark pointed out, loving someone doesn't mean you don't point out their error. John the Baptist - who Jesus called the greatest man born of woman - called his enemies vipers and directly confronted them with their sin. Elijah did the same and mocked the Baal worshippers to their faces (also, John the Baptist was said to have come in the spirit of Elijah). I don't think it was unloving to do this.

I see this on a few levels in our current world:

In real life, thankfully there's no one as far as I know who is actively trying to harm me, but there are people who I work with that could be considered my "enemies" at least ideologically: people who mock Christianity or live in open rebellion. I still interact with those people and am usually friendly with them. If we have an argument, I try to apologize for my part. I'm willing to help them when they need help.

Online, I think the disconnect makes loving enemies there more difficult. Or at least, they way to show love is different. For instance, on this board we have culture where we can be very hard on each other - and not just with "enemies". There are times when I think of a sarcastic response and don't post it because I feel I'm going too far. (Not always obviously )

And then there's the really distant things like reading what people have done but who I will never interact with. I don't know what loving an enemy would look like there. Is the person even an enemy at that point?

[WhiteShark]

They were told to enslave the very young ones.

20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: 20:18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

[ArcaneLurker]

They were told to enslave the very young ones.

20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: 20:18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

Alright. I'm sure you know which part I'm referring to though.

The point is, a kind of "love" where you can still kill them is not the typical understanding of love.
Unless "enemy" means something like "an Israelite of a different religion."

[WhiteShark]

And then there's the really distant things like reading what people have done but who I will never interact with. I don't know what loving an enemy would look like there. Is the person even an enemy at that point?

I read the account of a woman who was struck by lightning and died briefly. It was interesting and very detailed, but one part of it in particular sticks with me: during her encounter with God, He explained to her that the purpose of the news is to give us people for whom to pray.

[WhiteShark]

The point is, a kind of "love" where you can still kill them is not really a typical understanding of love.
Unless "enemy" means something like "an Israelite of a different religion."

As in @Acrux's examples, the outward manifestation of love takes different forms in different contexts. First, it must be understood that Christian love is never going operate from a materialist perspective. Love is concerned with what is best for a person, and both the ultimate good and the ultimate bad are to be found in the next life.

In the case of the Canaanites, I can only assume that God had judged them irredeemable, in which case the most loving thing that could be done was to destroy them before they could heap up more sin upon themselves and make their eternity even worse than it already was. As for their children, to them it was a great mercy: they died innocent, before they could become corrupted by their evil culture.

[KnightoftheWind]

"Loving your enemies" does not mean we are supposed to commit cultural suicide and invite millions of foriegners to live in our lands. Even the greatest empire in existence, Eastern Rome/Byzantium, did not have an open borders policy. This is a post-modern, protestant ideology that has no grounding in ancient Christian teachings. To emulate Christ is to emulate the living God, but mankind has it's limitations. Even among people of the same ethnicity and culture, loving one's enemies is difficult. Much moreso if you're talking about foreigners from strange lands, who's ideals are the antithesis of of our own. We are meant to live apart from them, but that doesn't mean we cannot converse with them, and indeed "love" them as they are fellow human beings, made in the image of God. That is how God Himself sees us, after all.

[ArcaneLurker]

The point is, a kind of "love" where you can still kill them is not really a typical understanding of love.
Unless "enemy" means something like "an Israelite of a different religion."

As in @Acrux's examples, the outward manifestation of love takes different forms in different contexts. First, it must be understood that Christian love is never going operate from a materialist perspective. Love is concerned with what is best for a person, and both the ultimate good and the ultimate bad are to be found in the next life.

In the case of the Canaanites, I can only assume that God had judged them irredeemable, in which case the most loving thing that could be done was to destroy them before they could heap up more sin upon themselves and make their eternity even worse than it already was. As for their children, to them it was a great mercy: they died innocent, before they could become corrupted by their evil culture.

I understand that POV but someone could become a serial killer and there's nothing you could do to prove that the voices in their head, telling them their victims were irredeemable, wasn't actually God's voice.

There's "love" and then there's "stuff we call love even though it's a completely different concept."
There's an underlying blank-slatism & egalitarianism in the concept-- that everyone has a choice & can be redeemed, because that is what would be fair.

[Xenich]

Picking and choosing will suit your argument, but it won't attend to the truth of the word.

I'm actually asking a genuine inquiry because I didn't get into Catholicism until last year. I think y'all can tell from my modding shenanigans recently I haven't been good at practicing this

But I attended Mass for the first time and got baptized this year so still new to this. Was wondering what you guys thought of this particular bit of Christianity

I am not catholic, so all I can comment on is the bible itself. As for what I think, this is a portion seeking a particular message as how a Christian should strive to be. It is pointing out not to be attached to the world and its things, that your true reward is from God, not man. It is also setting a message about how we deal with things. Does being violent, angry, hateful, resentful, etc... improve dealings with those who are such ways to you? Does it grow you spiritually? These are the points about what we should be and how we should become in Christ.

That said, this does not mean we are to be weak, tolerant, and accepting of sin. It does not mean that you are not to defend yourself, etc... There are many places where this is clarified in the Bible and that is why when you are new to the word, the best thing to do is keep reading because a lot of this is covered in various areas as you read at later times. Nothing wrong with asking questions, but be weary of interpretations, always go back, read all the context, and seek additional reference within the word.

One of the biggest lies created by the Zionist was to convince people that Jews are the chosen people, yet this is not supported in scripture and can be answered through study.

Remember Lucifer used the scripture to try and push Jesus to sin and there are a lot of people out there that pick and choose verses to support their own ideal, not that of Gods word. Just walk carefully in this.

Edit: also, be VERY careful of "summary" editions of the bible that try to tell you what the scripture means... this is how Zionism got its foothold into Christianity. Read the actual scripture, multiple version of the past and compare. Don't let another proclaim the truth without it being verified by yourself.

[ArcaneLurker]

Does being violent, angry, hateful, resentful, etc... improve dealings with those who are such ways to you?

Yes, actually. Often, showing persistent weakness is actually much worse than reciprocating hostility. It depends on the context of each situation, in truth.

[Xenich]

Does being violent, angry, hateful, resentful, etc... improve dealings with those who are such ways to you?

Yes, actually. Often showing persistent weakness is actually much worse than reciprocating hostility.

I didn't say be weak. Also, righteous anger I think is fine, but as long as it produces positive results. Being hateful (of sin is fine) in general can be a trap, etc.. the point is that those things without righteous purpose can result in negative result in our own spirituality.

Like I mentioned to you before, walk softly and carry a big stick.

[Atlantico]

What do you make of this line?

That Christ was trying to guide us to the grace of God and eternal salvation.

[ArcaneLurker]

If you had to pitch "eternal salvation" to an alien, without mentioning the alternative being eternal torture, how would you do it?

[WhiteShark]

I understand that POV but someone could become a serial killer and there's nothing you could do to prove that the voices in their head, telling them their victims were irredeemable, wasn't actually God's voice.

Scripture records God manifesting himself very clearly and publicly many times through a multitude of miracles. It was so frightening to the Israelites that they begged Moses go talk to God alone because they thought they would die if they came into God's presence. It wasn't some lone psycho with voices in his head telling them what to do.

There's an underlying blank-slatism & egalitarianism in the concept-- that everyone has a choice & can be redeemed, because that is what would be fair.

The chance for redemption is, in fact, one of the very few examples of something given to everyone. This life is the chance to repent, and each man's circumstances are arranged to make it possible.