"If gods existed, the only moral thing would be to oppose them"

[jcd]

Atheism is similar to lolbertarianism in that the adherents lack the ability to understand that just because they can function outside of society's rules(or moral framework) does not mean everyone can, or that most would be better off without them. Atheism, and lolbertarianism, are therefore extremely selfish ideologies.

If you live anywhere in the western Europe or even more explicitly, in the USA, you already live in an atheist society. If you're a church-going christian then you're in a small minority. Those internet forum religious larpers are the ones who live outside of society's rules, clinging to a vestige of something no longer relevant mainly because of contrarianism. They larp devout christians wrapped in 5 layers of irony to protect their fragile egos. The society rejected you, so you pull a "you can't fire me, I quit" and pretend you're actually the one rejecting the society.



That is of course not the only indicator but it tracks nicely how people practice religion as opposed to what they declare themselves as. The age of organized religion is pretty much over, and Islam is the last bastion where it's still being taken seriously. Not surprisingly, those countries are also among the world's worst shitholes.

[madbringer]

Atheism is similar to lolbertarianism in that the adherents lack the ability to understand that just because they can function outside of society's rules(or moral framework) does not mean everyone can, or that most would be better off without them. Atheism, and lolbertarianism, are therefore extremely selfish ideologies.

If you live anywhere in the western Europe or even more explicitly, in the USA, you already live in an atheist society. If you're a church-going christian then you're in a small minority. Those internet forum religious larpers are the ones who live outside of society's rules, clinging to a vestige of something no longer relevant mainly because of contrarianism. They larp devout christians wrapped in 5 layers of irony to protect their fragile egos. The society rejected you, so you pull a "you can't fire me, I quit" and pretend you're actually the one rejecting the society.



That is of course not the only indicator but it tracks nicely how people practice religion as opposed to what they declare themselves as. The age of organized religion is pretty much over, and Islam is the last bastion where it's still being taken seriously. Not surprisingly, those countries are also among the world's worst shitholes.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but muslim societies are shit because they're either constantly in a state of war (because of jews), or are ruled by the most brutal, hedonistic dictatorships (propped up by jews). Funny thing, there used to be a time where arabs werent known for suicide bombers and had a civilization... oh yeah brits bombed the fuck out that.

[Element]

Atheism is similar to lolbertarianism in that the adherents lack the ability to understand that just because they can function outside of society's rules(or moral framework) does not mean everyone can, or that most would be better off without them. Atheism, and lolbertarianism, are therefore extremely selfish ideologies.

If you live anywhere in the western Europe or even more explicitly, in the USA, you already live in an atheist society. If you're a church-going christian then you're in a small minority. Those internet forum religious larpers are the ones who live outside of society's rules, clinging to a vestige of something no longer relevant mainly because of contrarianism. They larp devout christians wrapped in 5 layers of irony to protect their fragile egos. The society rejected you, so you pull a "you can't fire me, I quit" and pretend you're actually the one rejecting the society.



That is of course not the only indicator but it tracks nicely how people practice religion as opposed to what they declare themselves as. The age of organized religion is pretty much over, and Islam is the last bastion where it's still being taken seriously. Not surprisingly, those countries are also among the world's worst shitholes.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but muslim societies are shit because they're either constantly in a state of war (because of jews), or are ruled by the most brutal, hedonistic dictatorships (propped up by jews). Funny thing, there used to be a time where arabs werent known for suicide bombers and had a civilization... oh yeah brits bombed the fuck out that.

It's consanguineous marriage that fucked them.

[Vergil]

I think muslim countries are shitholes because they are occupied by 80IQ arabs.

[Irenaeus]

Islamic "civilization" is a mirage by Enlightenment travelers who had one too many hookas in Instanbul and beyond.

[Slavic Sorcerer]

Pretty sure that the 'resisting the holy spirit' verse is NT, not OT, since the OT is not about forgiveness but instead promotes communal stoning of @Slavic Sorcerer

Waiting for those without sin to cast the first stone

[Vergil]

This thread sucks ass I'm gonna start posting Fable II LP updates here

[ArcaneLurker]

Pretty sure that the 'resisting the holy spirit' verse is NT, not OT, since the OT is not about forgiveness but instead promotes communal stoning of @Slavic Sorcerer

Waiting for those without sin to cast the first stone

That's NT though. Before that, the law from God was to execute.

[Emphyrio]

Do as I say, not as I do. What a great and moral rule for the supreme being to live by. And you're shocked that many state outright that he's a blind idiot god clueless about the reality he created and want nothing more than to kill him.

Would you let a 3 year old drive a car or apply for a credit card? Is that hypocritical? "Do as I say, not as I do". Besides that difference in capacity, sovereigns have authority that individuals do not, such as execution and taxation, which are murder and theft if done by an individual, and nobody except anarchist noodleheads think that's a problem.

[rusty_shackleford]

you already live in an atheist society.

[jcd]

you already live in an atheist society.

In 2000 years after Europe is fully Islamicized, there will be an RPG Kalifate forum where a Rashid ibn Shakirford will be decrying the abandonment of traditional islamic european values that have been upholding the civilization for 2 millennia.

[rusty_shackleford]

you already live in an atheist society.

In 2000 years after Europe is fully Islamicized, there will be an RPG Kalifate forum where a Rashid ibn Shakirford will be decrying the abandonment of traditional islamic european values that have been upholding the civilization for 2 millennia.

From an outsider's perspective, Islamic values seem far above what the masses degenerate into without any cohesive belief system.

[jcd]

From an outsider's perspective, Islamic values seem far above what the masses degenerate into without any cohesive belief system.

Good news then, you can move to any islamic country of your choice to fully enjoy their benefits. Niger looks like a great choice for a NIGGER like you

[rusty_shackleford]

From an outsider's perspective, Islamic values seem far above what the masses degenerate into without any cohesive belief system.

Good news then, you can move to any islamic country of your choice to fully enjoy their benefits. Niger looks like a great choice for a NIGGER like you

I'd rather live in Afghanistan than San Francisco.

[Slavic Sorcerer]

Pretty sure that the 'resisting the holy spirit' verse is NT, not OT, since the OT is not about forgiveness but instead promotes communal stoning of @Slavic Sorcerer

Waiting for those without sin to cast the first stone

That's NT though. Before that, the law from God was to execute.

I know. I'm just joking

[Kalarion]

He's got a point.

Yes, he does. But we weren't talking about his point, we were talking about his schtick. QED:

Protestants like you are absolute children. You need your feefees coddled by your fast food "pastors" who yell sweet nothings into your ears, and have "christian rock concerts" sung to you so that you can go home and comfort yourselves with the thought of being "raptured" tomorrow. Prots should be tried in an imperial court for the degradation and humiliation of Western Christianity. Every single one should be held to account.

...

Why do you assume everyone is acting ironically?. Can there not be a genuine man around, with genuine faith in genuine things?.

It's not irony, but it is a show. Hence the label. I sympathize. I'm much the same, including my schtick. Nevertheless, the fact is that at some point or other (depending on the reader), these genuine and energetic eruptions from your heart are going to be interpreted as farting and shit. That's only fun to watch, or be around, in small doses.

[Anon]

From an outsider's perspective, Islamic values seem far above what the masses degenerate into without any cohesive belief system.

Good news then, you can move to any islamic country of your choice to fully enjoy their benefits. Niger looks like a great choice for a NIGGER like you

I'd rather live in Afghanistan than San Francisco.

That's a concept that western liberals can't understand: being poor but with dignity and honor is a better life than being rich but corrupted and shallow.

[Acrux]

LOL No. If I lived in Afghanistan I wouldn't be a poor.

[Anon]

If you can bring your wealth to Afghanistan sure. But even then you won't be enjoying nearly the same infrastructure you have in a 1st world country.

Though there are some fine places in the middle east like Dubai and Tehran. I myself would love to live in Tehran no problem, one of the few places in the world where the Rothschild don't dictate the economy.

[jcd]

If you can bring your wealth to Afghanistan sure. But even then you won't be enjoying nearly the same infrastructure you have in a 1st world country.

Though there are some fine places in the middle east like Dubai and Tehran. I myself would love to live in Tehran no problem, one of the few places in the world where the Rothschild don't dictate the economy.

So why don't you, yet?

[Anon]

I'm not a nomad, I become rooted in plenty ways to the place where I live

[Slavic Sorcerer]

Damn, Poland is like an island of attending Masses among the sea of less than 20%
Nice to see

[Rand]

Also, the idea of a higher power is much more logical than just shrugging your shoulders and saying everything came from nothing.

Atheists like myself DO NOT think the universe came from "nothing". That's an old theist strawman by people that do not talk to or listen to many atheists.
We only find the assertion that it came from one of a large number of competing (and mutually exclusive) someONES unbelievable.

I admit I do not know what events occurred prior to the initial events of the current universe, if any. But I cannot discount that there may be prior ones that led to the event.
Assuming that there is some sort of universal time beyond that found so tightly bound to our universe, which cannot yet be known at all using evidence or reason.

This seems to be the majority opinion among atheists that have deeply considered the matter, by the way.
However, I think the majority of atheists as a whole have never considered the issue this deeply and simply say that they don't know when asked about such matters. A valid and actually humble position.

[Emphyrio]

Also, the idea of a higher power is much more logical than just shrugging your shoulders and saying everything came from nothing.

Atheists like myself DO NOT think the universe came from "nothing". That's an old theist strawman by people that do not talk to or listen to many atheists.
We only find the assertion that it came from one of a large number of competing (and mutually exclusive) someONES unbelievable.

I admit I do not know what events occurred prior to the initial events of the current universe, if any. But I cannot discount that there may be prior ones that led to the event.
Assuming that there is some sort of universal time beyond that found so tightly bound to our universe, which cannot yet be known at all using evidence or reason.

This is seems to be the minority opinion among atheists that have deeply considered the matter, by the way.
However, I think the majority of atheists as a whole have never considered the issue this deeply and simply say that they don't know when asked about such matters. A valid and actually humble position.

where does morality come from?

[Rand]

Definitionally, God can't be evil. To say that God is evil presupposes the existence of a moral law that is separate from and superior to God, which begs the question: whence proceeds that moral law? If there were a moral law by which even God were judged, then He were not God, the supreme being, but a subordinate to whatever being from which flows the law, and that being would be God.

God is the law. His virtues are the ones by which we are judged. Morality is the attempt to live up to God's nature. It is not an artificial, arbitrary thing separate from God and merely enforced by might but a fundamental aspect of reality. Hence, the idea that one should, or even could, morally oppose God, is an oxymoron.

From the context of rational logic, that doesn't make sense.
It seems to be a fallacy called "begging the question".
You are assuming that "moral" laws can only come from a being, and not spontaneously from environment and sentience. I do not assume that law requires a lawgiver.
And we have evidence for such arrangements happening without coordinated intent, unlike evidence for your proposition which I do not find believable or compelling.

[Anon]

Definitionally, God can't be evil. To say that God is evil presupposes the existence of a moral law that is separate from and superior to God, which begs the question: whence proceeds that moral law? If there were a moral law by which even God were judged, then He were not God, the supreme being, but a subordinate to whatever being from which flows the law, and that being would be God.

God is the law. His virtues are the ones by which we are judged. Morality is the attempt to live up to God's nature. It is not an artificial, arbitrary thing separate from God and merely enforced by might but a fundamental aspect of reality. Hence, the idea that one should, or even could, morally oppose God, is an oxymoron.

You are assuming that "moral" laws can only come from a being, and not spontaneously from environment and sentience. I do not assume that law requires a lawgiver.

If this is true, why do moral laws become more flexibilized and relativized the more people reject religion?

[Rand]

where does morality come from?

It seems to me that some comes from the particular environments we sentients find ourselves in, such as the entropy of the universe, or the methods of reproduction our species utilizes.
And some is deeper effects mediated by our (possibly unique) full sentience. As in we can philosophize.
This system is not perfect. It can lead to bugs in the process. Such as the ones that convince radical leftists that their patent evil is just and good.

[jcd]

I'm not a nomad, I become rooted in plenty ways to the place where I live

I have a drinking game where I take a shot whenever a commie on the internet doesn't want to move to China OR a rightoid doesn't want to move to a based islamic theocracy/Russia, and because of you I am now an alcoholic, I hope you're happy,

-Humbaba

[rusty_shackleford]

OR a rightoid doesn't want to move to a based islamic theocracy/Russia, and because of you I am now an alcoholic, I hope you're happy,

1. Russia is hostile to American citizens and I would be putting myself in danger by living there. I don't inherently blame Russia for this, it's just a fact of geopolitics. American citizens are simply useful pawns for negotiating.
2. USA has strong freedom of speech guarantees not available elsewhere that are sadly being eroded. This is coinciding with the de-Christianization of America, so make your own conclusions. That isn't to say this is entirely the de-Christianization's fault, as evangelicals are just as happy to censor when it involves israel(see e.g., Florida's recent law)

[jcd]

where does morality come from?

The brain. It's a man-made concept, based on some evolutionarily shaped rules that promote survival, like not killing members of your group. What a shocking revelation.