"All sexual relations - regardless of the details - are a barrier stopping you from a closer relationship with God."

[Ratcatcher]

Do you even understand the meaning of the word or did you just throw it in for good measure?

Much more than you do, apparently.

Not only is it not intended, the act of birth itself is meant as a punishment for our sins.

Lmao.

[Decline]

Do you even understand the meaning of the word or did you just throw it in for good measure?

Much more than you do, apparently.

So what does it mean then?

[Wretch]

This thread is a good example of what happens when people outside of the grace of God try to interpret the Scriptures according to their own will and outside of Holy tradition and the Church.

[Ratcatcher]

There are many good explanations on the pages you passed by already. I wouldn't do good to those that used their time to write (and to you, the recipient of their words) by repeating. You seem to mix in a number of gnostic tenets into your faith tho. For example, in the bit I cited, since no one else argued that, no, it's not birth that's punishment for our sins, it's pain, the pain both mothers and newborns suffer at birth.
The fact that said suffering is still justified and perpetuated (not marginally via the sexual act you consider impure) in order for us to experience the material world is apparently lost, to your faith...

[Decline]

a number of gnostic tenets

Where exactly. Cite me then cite the scripture.

To shorten your path, everything I wrote is extremely anti-gnostic. However, and much more interesting, it is precisely Gnosticism that would make such outrageous claims as that birth is divine, babies are divine, marriage is good and other such nonsense. This very specific inversion of truth combined with unfounded assumptions about my faith and your avatar makes it fairly obvious that you are guided by Satan, The Deceiver. I will just ignore your posts hence forth (not that they contained anything of intellect to begin with except dumb memery).

[Ratcatcher]

Congratz on the assumptions an ignorance.

anti-gnostic

lmao

You argue a position that would cause the human race to go extinct. Your faith, when scrutinized, clearly considers the act of being part of God's creation as a punishment. You want to be cited scriptures, instead of being open to a conversation about it with your fellow christians and how quick you are to call them satan tell me everything I need to know.

To add isult to injury, you have no idea what an Elder Sign is and probably never read anything from Howard Philips Lovecraft. What exactly are you doing here? Please go.

[Wretch]

a number of gnostic tenets

Where exactly. Cite me then cite the scripture.

To shorten your path, everything I wrote is extremely anti-gnostic. However, and much more interesting, it is precisely Gnosticism that would make such outrageous claims as that birth is divine, babies are divine, marriage is good and other such nonsense. This very specific inversion of truth combined with unfounded assumptions about my faith and your avatar makes it fairly obvious that you are guided by Satan, The Deceiver. I will just ignore your posts hence forth (not that they contained anything of intellect to begin with except dumb memery).

You’re very confused. Birth, babies, and Marriage are all considered Holy by the Church. Also Gnosticism is an erring belief that all matter is evil and cannot contain in it God’s Grace, not whatever you seem to think it is. The belief has clearly influenced you a lot.

I won’t throw Scripture quotes at you because i’m not a Pharisee. The word of God and no part of God can be comprehended by the human intellect, only through revelation of the heart. This is what the words “Those with ears to hear let them hear” mean. The Bible is full of God answering people’s prayers for spouses and Children and blessing them. Christ even teaches people that they have to be like children to inherit the Kingdom. The blessing of children has history considered to be such a gift of God’s Love that the Saints Joachim and Anna, parents of the Theotokos considered themselves to be sinful because they could not conceive. Later on God revealed to them this trial was only to prepare them for a far greater gift.

The hatred of Marriage and married couples is extremely demonic and anti-human. It’s really a perfect example of how far from Christ the western tradition has drifted.

[Atlantico]

God first created only Adam

No. Read Genesis. Don't waste our time with this bullshit.

Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 2:7

Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

Genesis 2:22

Approximately one verse in Genesis relates to one act of creation. So we can approximately say there were 15 acts of creation between Man and Woman. Please substantiate your understanding of 'before' if what Phos said isn't true.

Typical Anglo+protestard interpretation of things he is ignorant of.

Genesis 1:27

And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.

[Ratcatcher]

Hi Atlantico! I am now Satan!

...beware

[Decline]

Birth, babies, and Marriage are all considered Holy by the Church.

Marriage is only holy insofar as it joins two adults, one male one female (it must be added these days), in their belief in God and this communion is sealed by the Holy Spirit. The idea is that together they may attain a higher understanding of God's love and that the children are raised within the teaching of the church. This however does not mean that Marriage is the most holy way of living, it is merely a more fruitful existence than sinful fornication. For a deeper understanding of God's love chastity is preferable. Putting chastity on the same level or even below marriage is heresy.

Also Gnosticism is an erring belief that all matter is evil and cannot contain in it God’s Grace

So, where is what I said Gnostic? That man is born in sin? That's not Gnostic that is just the basic christian dogma.

A Gnostic believe in an evil creator/Demiurge, that the entire material plane of existence is therefore wicked, which I most expressively do not, which is very obvious from my posts. Neither does Sin equate Evil.

The accusation of Gnosticism leveled by you has the very bitter taste of inversion truth and deliberate misrepresentation so I urge you post carefully from here on out, as I am very suspicious of your motives now.

The hatred of Marriage

Is anyone here hating marriage? Is this more deliberate misrepresentation?

[Decline]

No. Read Genesis. Don't waste our time with this bullshit.

Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Genesis 2:7

Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

Genesis 2:22

Approximately one verse in Genesis relates to one act of creation. So we can approximately say there were 15 acts of creation between Man and Woman. Please substantiate your understanding of 'before' if what Phos said isn't true.

Typical Anglo+protestard interpretation of things he is ignorant of.

Genesis 1:27

And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.

Are you dense? Is 22 larger or smaller than 7? Are you even able to read and comprehend like a human? What do they put into the water in Brazil? I refuse to engage in this monkey behavior, fix your country.

[Ratcatcher]

Are you dense

No, but you definitely are. And I will personally ask Rusty to write a "no gnostic fucks' rule for the HQ. And I repeat my accusation that half the things you write is gnostic dribble you yourself do not understand, probably because of lack of IQ.

Now, if only you didn't ignore me like a childish woman, you could answer back. Instead, I will simply point out the fallacies (considering the way you argue, it won't be hard to find them in other threads too) for other people to laugh about.

Hint: God doesn't like little bitches.

[maidenhaver]

You don't need angloprotestards to misread the bible, you do it fine yourselves.

[Wretch]

Modern Christians are wild. Some of us really have strayed so far from God they try to argue Sacraments as being sinful.

No amount of pseudo intellectual cope or pharisaical misrepresentation of Scripture will change that Marriage and marital relations are Godly. Every baby is personally cared for and protected by God. Grace just rolls off of Christian babies.

Source: personal experience

[Emphyrio]

There are some surprising and wild opinions in this thread.

[Breathe]

This thread is very spicy indeed.

[Decline]

No amount of pseudo intellectual cope or pharisaical misrepresentation of Scripture will change that Marriage and marital relations are Godly.

Source: personal experience

Your 'argument' really stands for itself.

[WhiteShark]

Imagine appealing to Scripture but ignoring the Church that decided the canon and interprets it. In his Homily on Marriage, St. John Chrysostom says the following after describing proper behavior within a marriage: "If your marriage is like this, your perfection will rival the holiest of monks." For some, marriage is the right path, and for others, monasticism, but neither is an obstacle to virtue, nor is monasticism some refuge from temptation, for the fathers say that the life of a monk is one of intense spiritual warfare and great temptation.

For anyone else interested in St. John Chrysostom's views on marriage, this is a good video:

[Decline]

Imagine appealing to Scripture

If anyone just claims anything without authority from the scripture Christianity is not a faith but politics.

but ignoring the Church that decided the canon and interprets it.

The Church is very clear on the matter; this is why the clerical body is disciplined to celibacy. And not 'greed' like some communists here tried to argue. The Church may be wrong very often but here it is absolutely correct.

As for St. Chrysostom, he basically repeats what I said, however later changed his mind for whatever reason. If you give him as witness you also have to represent the many other voices that stood firm on Apostolic Authority. Taken on his own, while his argument may hold merit in his eyes, it is in opposition to scripture. You are giving the faux-orthodox argument but omit the catholic/classical/true-orthodox argument.

It also bears repeating that nobody claimed marriage prevents you from attaining virtue, as the author of the video boils the issue down to either/or which is already erroneous, only that celibacy is preferable. As the author himself realizes a married couple can also deepen its knowledge of the love of God, but much more effort is required due to carnal desires usually taking over.

[revenant]

The Church is very clear on the matter; this is why the clerical body is disciplined to celibacy.

Clerical celibacy is a church rule, not a dogma of faith and as such could be changed at any time. Also it only exists in the catholic church, orthodox priests are not only allowed but required to marry.

It was Kathaarians who segregated believers into the normal and pure, with normals not being expected to reach the spiritual standards of the pure, so it's a gnostic practice indeed, alien to Christianity.

[WhiteShark]

orthodox priests are not only allowed but required to marry.

Encouraged, maybe, but definitely not required. The rule is that a priest must remain in the state he was in when he was ordained, so a married priest stays married and a celibate priest stays celibate.

[revenant]

orthodox priests are not only allowed but required to marry.

Encouraged, maybe, but definitely not required. The rule is that a priest must remain in the state he was in when he was ordained, so a married priest stays married and a celibate priest stays celibate.

Yes, what I heard is that a priest is required to marry before he is ordained, so understood it that all of them must get married before getting ordained.

[Wretch]

The Church is very clear on the matter; this is why the clerical body is disciplined to celibacy.

Clerical celibacy is a church rule, not a dogma of faith and as such could be changed at any time. Also it only exists in the catholic church, orthodox priests are not only allowed but required to marry.

It was Kathaarians who segregated believers into the normal and pure, with normals not being expected to reach the spiritual standards of the pure, so it's a gnostic practice indeed, alien to Christianity.

Eastern rite Catholics also have married clergy. It’s only a rule for western Catholics.

Also this guy is pretty deep in prelest. He talks about the “Church” but only to deceive others into thinking he’s in good standing. He doesn’t actually believe in a Church and is one of those internet Christians that thinks Christianity died when it became accepted as a religion in Rome. Which is also gnostic actually.

[Sweeper]

All sexual relations - regardless of the details - are a barrier stopping you from a closer relationship with God.

RPGHQ member @Decline has put forward this thesis. I'm inclined to agree to with him. What do you guys think about it?

Unless you're planning to become a monk, no.

Genesis 1:28 – Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Although one may view theosis as proximity to God, in which case not only is sex a barrier to forming a closer relationship with God, so are all the other passions.

If anyone just claims anything without authority from the scripture Christianity is not a faith but politics.

Which is older, the scriputre or the church?

► Show Spoiler

It's a trick question.

it is precisely Gnosticism that would make such outrageous claims as that birth is divine,

I don't see how that can be the case. The core of gnosticism lies in the idea that material existence itself is evil due to the demiurge creating it. Anti-natalism then becomes a logical conclusion.

[Atlantico]

Are you dense? Is 22 larger or smaller than 7? Are you even able to read and comprehend like a human?

Chapter One bitch. This isn't protestard kabbalist kike numerology.

The only description of time passing is in chapter one, and your personal and batshit interpretation of "Approximately one verse in Genesis relates to one act of creation." ... I don't even

Kikes. Kikes everywhere

[Wretch]

All sexual relations - regardless of the details - are a barrier stopping you from a closer relationship with God.

RPGHQ member @Decline has put forward this thesis. I'm inclined to agree to with him. What do you guys think about it?

Unless you're planning to become a monk, no.

Genesis 1:28 – Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Although one may view theosis as proximity to God, in which case not only is sex a barrier to forming a closer relationship with God, so are all the other passions.

If anyone just claims anything without authority from the scripture Christianity is not a faith but politics.

Which is older, the scriputre or the church?

► Show Spoiler

It's a trick question.

Marriage is a tried and true method to attain Theosis, not a hindrance to it. Sexual passions are sexual sins. Marital relations aren’t sinful. Saint John Chrysostom has a really good homily on Marriage that is printed as a book. He explains the Sacrament of Marriage is the marital relationship. Of course all things in moderation though, these things should still be fasted from according tot he strength of the individuals during the designated periods by the Church. When people don’t attempt to fast from these things only then do problems start to appear.

Vergil earlier in the thread pegged him as an antinatalist immediately. Speaking of which, pretty surprised to see the reddit pseudo intellectual gnostic ideology here of all places.

[Sweeper]

Marital relations aren’t sinful.

Never said they were, but having a family means providing for it, that alone can prove to be the source of many temptations, ones that you might not otherwise have.

[Wretch]

Marital relations aren’t sinful.

Never said they were, but having a family means providing for it, that alone can prove to be the source of many temptations, ones that you might not otherwise have.

Definitely agree with you, especially in our times. No doubt anxiety over worldly matters harms a lot of people.

[Theta]

This thread is a good example of what happens when people outside of the grace of God try to interpret the Scriptures according to their own will and outside of Holy tradition and the Church.

I would say this is an example of the logical fallacy of "no true Scotsman"

[Decline]

Clerical celibacy is a church rule, not a dogma of faith

Yeah if you take what 21st century jesuits and jews claim as face value it probably is. It is also a massive red herring because whether clerical celibacy is a dogma or not is not relevant to the discussion at all. Again, The Bible/Jesus establishes a hierarchy so that celibacy is preferable to marriage. It does not argue that the clerical body must be celibate, and no such claim was ever made.

Marriage is a tried and true method to attain Theosis, not a hindrance to it.

No, it is not a 'tried and true method'. It depends. It depends on the people involved. If marriage is lived as ascetic practice of learning to love theosis can be achieved. Conversely, every sexual desire always contains a measure of objectification through fetish and fantasy, so it is never only purely about love. Thus marriage is a remedy that acknowledges that very few actually can live an ascetic life and likewise allows the couple to work through potentially destructive sexual desires ascetically.

Your blanket exoneration of marriage of 'tried and true' was wrong, is wrong and will be forever wrong within the context of Christianity, even in the Orthodox Church. Achieving theosis requires work. And celibacy is the preferred path.

At least your simplistic understanding of the issue is in perfect agreement with our current time, where marriage is entirely destroyed. "Just get married Bro"

I don't see how that can be the case. The core of gnosticism lies in the idea that material existence itself is evil due to the demiurge creating it. Anti-natalism then becomes a logical conclusion.

That is one branch of Gnosticism. There are many others. The common denominator is that Gnosticism values experience over authority, so it is on the other end from my position. The church is strongly influenced by Gnosticism as are many positions given here.