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Is anybody familiar with the Star Wars tabletops? There are a few popular ones (WEGd6, SAGA edition, FFG) I was wondering if any of them would be worth getting to play. I did a cursory look online and they all seem pretty good.

The d6 version is great, and it's easy enough to find pdfs of core rules and campaign books online.

I own a couple of the FFG books, but I'm not a big fan of many of the rules. It's mostly a storytelling game and in theory the mix of success/fail dice sounds interesting, but over time I think it maks most of the challenges too similar. You also have a problem with mixed success/failure leading to weird scenarios that requires a good DM to make sense of, and I just don't think their rule set handles it very well.

A game that DOES do that really well is The One Ring. First Edition, anyway. Hmm...I have a complete or nearly complete set of the boks. I should post those now that it's out of print.

I've only played the d20 one and it was only once and while I was a kid, so all I can really say is that if you like d20 systems you'd probably like it. The FFG one is really polarizing: either you like the dice mechanic or you hate it. I don't like narrativist mechanics so it's not for me. /tg/ always seems to have good things to say about the d6 version, so if I were getting into Star Wars tabletop, that's where I would start. Alternatively, if I would rather play GURPS (I would) and didn't care if the setting were a knockoff, I would look into Psi Wars.

Pretty sure the D6 version was by far the most popular, and still is. After they lost the right to Star Wars they continued to publish space opera material under D6 Space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D6_Space

The SAGA publications had some interesting character building rules.

Thanks for all the info. For the d6 one there seems to be a lot of editions. I’m more interested in a physical book so that rules out the fan edited one. I’m unsure between the first edition and 2e revised and expanded. Is one much better than the other?

WhiteShark wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 06:27
I've only played the d20 one and it was only once and while I was a kid, so all I can really say is that if you like d20 systems you'd probably like it. The FFG one is really polarizing: either you like the dice mechanic or you hate it. I don't like narrativist mechanics so it's not for me. /tg/ always seems to have good things to say about the d6 version, so if I were getting into Star Wars tabletop, that's where I would start. Alternatively, if I would rather play GURPS (I would) and didn't care if the setting were a knockoff, I would look into Psi Wars.

I mainly want to get into tabletops to tell fun stories with my son since I realized there will be no tolerable media for him to enjoy when he’s older. Making homebrews is my long term intention so I think GURPS might work well. I’m just leaning towards learning on something else since I have no real experience dming. The psiwars stuff looks fun. If you have any experience with GURPS could you explain what I might be getting myself into?

I actually looked on their site a while ago but the sodomite flag illuminati symbol made me just close the window and look elsewhere.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 11:03
Pretty sure the D6 version was by far the most popular, and still is. After they lost the right to Star Wars they continued to publish space opera material under D6 Space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D6_Space

The SAGA publications had some interesting character building rules.

I have a bunch of PDFs of all the D6 stuff post Star Wars, but I'm retarded.
How can I best post them here for people?

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:18
Thanks for all the info. For the d6 one there seems to be a lot of editions. I’m more interested in a physical book so that rules out the fan edited one. I’m unsure between the first edition and 2e revised and expanded. Is one much better than the other?

Never used either, sorry, just aware of them from being in tabletop circles.

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:24

WhiteShark wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 06:27
I've only played the d20 one and it was only once and while I was a kid, so all I can really say is that if you like d20 systems you'd probably like it. The FFG one is really polarizing: either you like the dice mechanic or you hate it. I don't like narrativist mechanics so it's not for me. /tg/ always seems to have good things to say about the d6 version, so if I were getting into Star Wars tabletop, that's where I would start. Alternatively, if I would rather play GURPS (I would) and didn't care if the setting were a knockoff, I would look into Psi Wars.
I mainly want to get into tabletops to tell fun stories with my son since I realized there will be no tolerable media for him to enjoy when he’s older. Making homebrews is my long term intention so I think GURPS might work well. I’m just leaning towards learning on something else since I have no real experience dming. The psiwars stuff looks fun. If you have any experience with GURPS could you explain what I might be getting myself into?

I actually looked on their site a while ago but the sodomite flag illuminati symbol made me just close the window and look elsewhere.

GURPS isn't pozzed at all.
Some sourcebooks may be a little, but they're mostly written by fellow autists that don't care about the ESG stuff at all.

Rand wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:19
GURPS isn't pozzed at all.

I cannot, in good faith, recommend anyone give money to SJG.
https://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/Jul ... Roe_v_Wade

I own many of their books & believe they have published great works over the years, but it is what it is.

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:24
If you have any experience with GURPS could you explain what I might be getting myself into?

GURPS is VERY crunchy. As in you have to have a GM that knows the rules, and that's a tall order.
SJG (the company) knows this and has done some work on it (Like the newer GURPS Dungeon Fantasy) but it's not a rules-light game at all.
Go with D6 Star Wars if this is not to your taste. WEG's d6 Star Wars is easier to play and GM on the fly.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:21

Rand wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:19
GURPS isn't pozzed at all.
I cannot, in good faith, recommend anyone give money to SJG.
https://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/Jul ... Roe_v_Wade

I own many of their books & believe they have published great works over the years, but it is what it is.

I didn't say there weren't modern morons in the actual office.
But it doesn't show up in their products either way.
GURPS isn't pozzed, despite some gullible idiots in the publishing executive office.

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:18
I’m unsure between the first edition and 2e revised and expanded. Is one much better than the other?

Not much difference. If in doubt, the newer one is fine.

Rand wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:23

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:21

Rand wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:19
GURPS isn't pozzed at all.
I cannot, in good faith, recommend anyone give money to SJG.
https://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/Jul ... Roe_v_Wade

I own many of their books & believe they have published great works over the years, but it is what it is.
I didn't say there weren't modern morons in the actual office.
But it doesn't show up in their products either way.
GURPS isn't pozzed, despite some gullible idiots in the publishing executive office.

What are you talking about. Did you read what Rusty linked? Did you see who the author of that disgusting filth was?

Kalarion wrote: ↑ December 8th, 2023, 15:43

Rand wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:23

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 20:21

I cannot, in good faith, recommend anyone give money to SJG.
https://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/Jul ... Roe_v_Wade

I own many of their books & believe they have published great works over the years, but it is what it is.
I didn't say there weren't modern morons in the actual office.
But it doesn't show up in their products either way.
GURPS isn't pozzed, despite some gullible idiots in the publishing executive office.
What are you talking about. Did you read what Rusty linked? Did you see who the author of that disgusting filth was?

Yes, and what does he actually write, other than that brainless para-political garbage they sprinkle on their website?
He doesn't even edit shit any more. Hasn't for decades.
He sits as the president and maybe sits in on the occasional meeting on what projects to go forward with.
I've read most of the GURPS products from the 80s to today and the modern socio-political shit isn't in any of the rulebooks and sourcebooks I've read.
Not even the "X-card" or "ignore sensitive topics or you're a bigot and shouldn't play our game" crap you see more and more.

He collects money from purchases of GURPS games therefore I cannot recommend anyone purchase them.

I’m pretty interested in the old Illuminati New World Order card game of his. Shane it’s so expensive.

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 8th, 2023, 17:28
I’m pretty interested in the old Illuminati New World Order card game of his. Shane it’s so expensive.

Out of print TTRPGs tend to run a premium, yeah. If you're looking for some, I can recommend Noble Knight Games tho.

Rand wrote: ↑ December 8th, 2023, 17:19
Yes, and what does he actually write, other than that brainless para-political garbage they sprinkle on their website?
He doesn't even edit shit any more. Hasn't for decades.
He sits as the president and maybe sits in on the occasional meeting on what projects to go forward with.
I've read most of the GURPS products from the 80s to today and the modern socio-political shit isn't in any of the rulebooks and sourcebooks I've read.
Not even the "X-card" or "ignore sensitive topics or you're a bigot and shouldn't play our game" crap you see more and more.

Ah, a reliably useless tag.

What I wrote is 100% correct, so perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us exactly what you disagree with?
The fact that he's the president? Or his callow lefto-herd-normie stupid political opinions?

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:24
I mainly want to get into tabletops to tell fun stories with my son since I realized there will be no tolerable media for him to enjoy when he’s older. Making homebrews is my long term intention so I think GURPS might work well. I’m just leaning towards learning on something else since I have no real experience dming. The psiwars stuff looks fun. If you have any experience with GURPS could you explain what I might be getting myself into?

To use the popular description: GURPS is a toolbox, not a system: it has rules for just about anything you can imagine in its enormous library of supplements and you're not expected to use all of them. This is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. The advantage is that you can model nearly anything in a sensible fashion; the disadvantage is that it's easy, especially for a new GM, to become overwhelmed. Setting up a new campaign takes the most work, for you must decide the setting details and then gather, curate, and build from the appropriate rules. There are a few setting books, like Banestorm and Discworld, that largely do this for you. Psi Wars is likewise a 'worked example' of setting creation in that the author has already made many of these decisions.

If you're ok with the up-front investment, the rewards are great. GURPS does most settings/campaigns better than their dedicated systems and you'll be able to transfer your system knowledge from one setting to another instead of starting over with a new system. One of the big draws for me is the combat. I love how GURPS has rules for all the second-by-second maneuvering, facing, targeting body parts, feints, aggressive and defensive attacks, etc. As my friend put it, it's a system that makes two peasants fighting each other with sticks mechanically interesting.

Rand wrote: ↑ December 8th, 2023, 17:59
Ah, a reliably useless tag.

Disagreed. It's useful but it has to be stretched into situations it doesn't fit. Unfortunately Rusty didn't implement a wide enough range of buttons for me to react properly to your post.

You're retarded on this. You're perceptive enough to have picked up on my previous point. I'm not going to keep arguing with you if you've drawn a different (incorrect) conclusion from it.

Kalarion wrote: ↑ December 9th, 2023, 15:03

Rand wrote: ↑ December 8th, 2023, 17:59
Ah, a reliably useless tag.
Disagreed. It's useful but it has to be stretched into situations it doesn't fit. Unfortunately Rusty didn't implement a wide enough range of buttons for me to react properly to your post.

You're retarded on this. You're perceptive enough to have picked up on my previous point. I'm not going to keep arguing with you if you've drawn a different (incorrect) conclusion from it.

You're retarded on this.
Evidence: calling the piece "filth", which is a strongly emotionally based stance.
He wrote a stupid take based on ignorance and political callowness, but it's hardly a deranged leftist screed.

Anyway, the old boss being stupid on some political points has not even slightly affected the content products the actual editors and writers have produced and are producing.
His involvement with the functional part of the company is apparently minimal at best.
But his occasional nonsense is no reason to hold anything against the product that is seemingly deliberately avoiding all the modern socio-political nonsense. Because there's nothing I can see.
It's not just neutral, it's clearly avoiding all of it. Which is sadly commendable in this stupid era.

Now if you want to argue that a lot of stupid products with limited appeal have been produced, or that the company's pricing for purely digital products are too high, then those are points I won't debate because you'd be correct.

WhiteShark wrote: ↑ December 9th, 2023, 00:46

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:24
I mainly want to get into tabletops to tell fun stories with my son since I realized there will be no tolerable media for him to enjoy when he’s older. Making homebrews is my long term intention so I think GURPS might work well. I’m just leaning towards learning on something else since I have no real experience dming. The psiwars stuff looks fun. If you have any experience with GURPS could you explain what I might be getting myself into?
To use the popular description: GURPS is a toolbox, not a system: it has rules for just about anything you can imagine in its enormous library of supplements and you're not expected to use all of them. This is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. The advantage is that you can model nearly anything in a sensible fashion; the disadvantage is that it's easy, especially for a new GM, to become overwhelmed. Setting up a new campaign takes the most work, for you must decide the setting details and then gather, curate, and build from the appropriate rules. There are a few setting books, like Banestorm and Discworld, that largely do this for you. Psi Wars is likewise a 'worked example' of setting creation in that the author has already made many of these decisions.

If you're ok with the up-front investment, the rewards are great. GURPS does most settings/campaigns better than their dedicated systems and you'll be able to transfer your system knowledge from one setting to another instead of starting over with a new system. One of the big draws for me is the combat. I love how GURPS has rules for all the second-by-second maneuvering, facing, targeting body parts, feints, aggressive and defensive attacks, etc. As my friend put it, it's a system that makes two peasants fighting each other with sticks mechanically interesting.

Thanks for well thought out post. It actually sounds like GURPS might be for me. I don’t mind being autistic and devoting a ton of time to learning it but will players need to learn a lot too? I would prefer something simple on the player side of things.

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 9th, 2023, 21:19

WhiteShark wrote: ↑ December 9th, 2023, 00:46

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 7th, 2023, 16:24
I mainly want to get into tabletops to tell fun stories with my son since I realized there will be no tolerable media for him to enjoy when he’s older. Making homebrews is my long term intention so I think GURPS might work well. I’m just leaning towards learning on something else since I have no real experience dming. The psiwars stuff looks fun. If you have any experience with GURPS could you explain what I might be getting myself into?
To use the popular description: GURPS is a toolbox, not a system: it has rules for just about anything you can imagine in its enormous library of supplements and you're not expected to use all of them. This is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. The advantage is that you can model nearly anything in a sensible fashion; the disadvantage is that it's easy, especially for a new GM, to become overwhelmed. Setting up a new campaign takes the most work, for you must decide the setting details and then gather, curate, and build from the appropriate rules. There are a few setting books, like Banestorm and Discworld, that largely do this for you. Psi Wars is likewise a 'worked example' of setting creation in that the author has already made many of these decisions.

If you're ok with the up-front investment, the rewards are great. GURPS does most settings/campaigns better than their dedicated systems and you'll be able to transfer your system knowledge from one setting to another instead of starting over with a new system. One of the big draws for me is the combat. I love how GURPS has rules for all the second-by-second maneuvering, facing, targeting body parts, feints, aggressive and defensive attacks, etc. As my friend put it, it's a system that makes two peasants fighting each other with sticks mechanically interesting.
Thanks for well thought out post. It actually sounds like GURPS might be for me. I don’t mind being autistic and devoting a ton of time to learning it but will players need to learn a lot too? I would prefer something simple on the player side of things.

If the GM knows his stuff, the players don't have to know much at all.
It helps if they do, but it's not a requirement in that situation.

Wretch wrote: ↑ December 9th, 2023, 21:19
I don’t mind being autistic and devoting a ton of time to learning it but will players need to learn a lot too? I would prefer something simple on the player side of things.

As Rand says, players don't have to know much. GURPS does a good enough job of realistic modeling that, if you know the rules well enough as the GM, you can simply ask your players what they want to do in natural language and then translate that into GURPS mechanics yourself. As long as you communicate the difficulty of possible actions they can make informed decisions even with little rules knowledge. It would also help such players greatly if you built their characters yourself after working out the concepts together because character creation is one of the crunchiest and most intimidating parts of GURPS for new players.

By the way, if you find the skill list excessive, check out my friend's Condensed Skills houserules.

A bit unrelated but would learning other d6 systems like AD&D 2e transfer over to stuff like GURPS or Star Wars d6? My original idea was to use 2e for fantasy style settings and Starwars for sci fi stuff.

AD&D 2e is D20.

The WEG D6 games are known for being rather easy to pick up and learn so I don't think you'd have any issue.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 10th, 2023, 20:28
AD&D 2e is D20.

The WEG D6 games are known for being rather easy to pick up and learn so I don't think you'd have any issue.

I’m dumb. Thought 2e was d6 for some reason.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 10th, 2023, 20:28
AD&D 2e is D20.

Huh? No it isn't. D20 is what 3.X and beyond was based on. There are some D20 AD&D 2E retroclones, though.

Acrux wrote: ↑ December 10th, 2023, 20:39

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ December 10th, 2023, 20:28
AD&D 2e is D20.
Huh? No it isn't. D20 is what 3.X and beyond was based on. There are some D20 AD&D 2E retroclones, though.

It's the die you use for the majority of things including attack rolls, therefore it's a D20 game.
There being a "D20 system" is unrelated to this.

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