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rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 01:30

bethesda has to use a specific style of storytelling(unreliable narrator) in TES games that allows them to make contradictions because they're so incapable of respecting or having any sort of care for the lore of their own IP. What makes people think they'd give two shits about Fallout?

I like the unreliable narrator, just not the reasons they use it.

You know, if Todd had just said, "This show takes place in an alternate timeline. We decided to create a timeline for the games and a timeline for tv shows and movies." I think they wouldn't be getting the backlash they are getting. The Resident Evil series does alternate timelines for their games, shows and movies so this would have been smart for Bethesda to do. Of course they wouldn't do that though because Todd and Emil are such petty little bitches and have been waiting for a chance to retcon the lore of the OG Fallout's and New Vegas because they can't stand that their games aren't as beloved and respected as the OG Fallout's and New Vegas. Todd and Emil were so delusional that they thought they would receive more support then pushback over this and now they are learning the hard way.

Rand wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 05:08

Slowly I begin to understand why people hate normies so much.

I prefer lore over canon, because everyone should be fallible. If Fallout got to be as pulpy as Gamma World, Emil wouldn't need to keep asking Todd when a thing happened.

RangerBoo wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 04:49

You know, if Todd had just said, "This show takes place in an alternate timeline. We decided to create a timeline for the games and a timeline for tv shows and movies." I think they wouldn't be getting the backlash they are getting.

I don't see how Todd saying words would change what the writers of the Amazon television show would decide to put in their show with no writers under bethesda's employ on it.

Rand wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 05:08

Copers will say Todd and Emil are le jealous of the game getting a third of the player count as the last game they worked on btw

People act like bethesda are like Bioware or something where they've taken a near decade of L's and watched as someone has taken their franchise/gameplay formula (ala Baldur's Gate 3) while they're languishing in the dirt. Bethesda has gotten some relatively mild criticism from their past few games that have all still sold extremely well, reviewed well, and still get high player retention. Even Fallout 76 has a healthy player base and turns a profit. They do not give a shit about New Vegas. New Vegas isn't even as big or popular as Fallout 4.

going to guess most people are playing these because they just went on mega-discount(all-time low for FO4), not because they watched the show. Also, it appears FO76 has a free-to-play event going on.

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 05:40

People act like bethesda are like Bioware or something where they've taken a near decade of L'

They've only released 3 games in the past 10 years, and 2 of them have been received exceptionally negatively. They're actually doing worse than Bioware if we include SWTOR's expansions.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 05:47

They've only released 3 games in the past 10 years, and 2 of them have been received exceptionally negatively.

Fallout 4 is the last mainline Bethesda core developed Fallout game and is a massive success. Even Fallout 76 as said and shown above still has a large player base (even larger than New Vegas) that turns a profit and has the cope of being "saved" by the updates.
The "Todd is pacing around his basement out of jealousy of New Vegas' success because a minority of youtubers don't like his games" narrative is completely detached from reality

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 05:47

They're actually doing worse than Bioware if we include SWTOR's expansions.

I don't know if I should bother responding to this it seems like too obvious of a troll. Bioware is like 10 seconds away from being shut down entirely. Fallout 76 is nothing compared to the Anthem fiasco. The problems people have with Fallout 4 weren't widespread or damaging enough to kill an entire franchise for years like Andromeda.

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 05:58

Fallout 76 is nothing compared to the Anthem fiasco.

Right.
It's Starfield, a game they worked on for almost a decade and is one of the most spectacular AAA faceplants of all time. Dragon age deadname might outdo it, but it will be hard.

---

We know bethesda is butthurt about fnv because there have been leaks confirming this since fnv released, from both obsidian and bethesda employees. It's not our fault if you don't keep up with insider gossip.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:00

We know bethesda is butthurt about fnv because there have been leaks confirming this since fnv released, from both obsidian and bethesda employees. It's not our fault if you don't keep up with insider gossip.

Avellone was the one of the owners of Obsidian when FNV released, if you don't accept his word on it then I don't know what to tell you

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:00

It's Starfield, a game they worked on for almost a decade

This is marketing, Starfield was not cooking for 8 years.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:00

and is one of the most spectacular AAA faceplants of all time

Sure but it's just their first actual significant misstep that has the potential to spell doom depending on how they handle their bread and butter franchises going forward. Bioware shit the bed with Dragon Age, Mass Effect, AND their new IP back to back to back.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:00

We know bethesda is butthurt about fnv because there have been leaks confirming this since fnv released

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:03

Avellone was the one of the owners of Obsidian when FNV released, if you don't accept his word on it then I don't know what to tell you

That's great that he has that "impression" (ie was not explicitly told this) based on nebulous information that could be anything from over hearing someone's conversation to having a bad dream but he's not an insider at bethesda and has no actual position to speak on how they personally feel about the game. We know it failed to reach the meta critic goal and before becoming a cult classic was primarily known for being essentially a DLC for Fallout 3 that was almost unplayably buggy at launch. I imagine any bad "impressions" or "vibes" or whatever he got could have come from that.

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:08

This is marketing, Starfield was not cooking for 8 years.

You're right. It likely started development before FO4 even released. And I can provide evidence for my claim:
Starfield is missing the 'GDRY' form type(represents god rays), which is the second-from-last form type in FO4, and also exists in FO76. If Starfield was forked off of either of those, it would have that form type. Implying Starfield began development late into FO4's development cycle. Don't try to argue "oh, they just didn't use god rays therefore removed it" — I already know that you know over half the form types in starfield(and FO4) go unused and are leftovers from skyrim/oblivion.

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:08

That's great that he has that "impression" (ie was not explicitly told this) based on nebulous information that could be anything from over hearing someone's conversation to having a bad dream but he's not an insider at bethesda and has no actual position to speak on how they personally feel about the game. We know it failed to reach the meta critic goal and before becoming a cult classic was primarily known for being essentially a DLC for Fallout 3 that was almost unplayably buggy at launch. I imagine any bad "impressions" or "vibes" or whatever he got could have come from that.

If an owner of a business feels like a company he worked with resents him — and the behavior of said corporation seemingly reflects said opinion — I'm going to agree with his opinion unless there is evidence to the contrary.

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:08

This is marketing, Starfield was not cooking for 8 years.

Arguably, it could have been. Look at how long it's taking them to make TES VI. I think Bethesda has massive issues with competency, exacerbated further by the MicroSoft purchase. Bethesda likely spent years trying to wrangle the engine to do what they wanted it to do, ultimately realized it couldn't, and then had to scramble to build the game around the existing limitations.

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:08

their first actual significant misstep

Fallout 4 was a big misstep, Fallout 76 was another - both did a lot of damage to the Fallout brand. People did not like the set background for the FO4 protagonist or the fact you're looking for your son. FO76 was a comedy of error that keeps on giving.

gerey wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 07:00

Bethesda likely spent years trying to wrangle the engine to do what they wanted it to do, ultimately realized it couldn't, and then had to scramble to build the game around the existing limitations.

It's like everyone forgot that Starfield was originally slated for a November '22 release then ended up not releasing for another year(pushed back twice)


"Most polished version"
They didn't even have the fucking game near completion. We know this now because they've told us so:
https://www.gamesradar.com/starfield-le ... hing-else/

Starfield lead says the RPG's ending twist was a "panic button" idea to tie things together since the team was "overbooked" making everything else

Not a single outlet I'm aware of has taken the time to attempt to ask Bethesda or Microsoft why they just lied to their customers like that.

gerey wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 07:00

Vergil wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 06:08

their first actual significant misstep

Fallout 4 was a big misstep,

Do I have to post the charts, reviews, and sales numbers again?

strange how bethesda brags about the number of copies of skyrim sold well over a decade after release but stays quiet on fallout 4 beyond the number of physical units shipped(not sold) at launch

That dog isn't barking.

I think Fallout4 sold very well despite for its shittines i thought most people acknowledge this already

Why would we take sales as the final barometer of quality? All triple A goyslop posts crazy numbers in sales; cattle buys what's hyped. Bethesda's Fallouts can outsell NV by an order of magnitude and Bethesda can still feel animosity towards NV. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm not saying that i know fo4 is trash but still sold very well nobody can deny that

gastovski wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 09:42

I think Fallout4 sold very well despite for its shittines i thought most people acknowledge this already

It obviously sold under expectations compared to Skyrim or they'd go around touting its sales figures. The same reason EA never released sales figures for Dragon Age Inquisition. Publishers don't release those for games that don't do as well as expected. The same reason they don't talk about the copies sold for Starslop but instead total players, which includes gamepass.

We've received news reports from Bethesda on the total copies of Skyrim sold multiple times over the years:
2013, 20 million sold: https://archive.ph/20150428171537/http: ... -xbox-one/
2016, 30 million sold: https://web.archive.org/web/20161122050 ... it-w451761
2023, 60 million sold: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/skyri ... 0-6515101/

Fallout 4: *chirp*
Only thing we know is the total number shipped at launch.

Last i remember it was around 15m approx for every platform combined still a big number

Fallout 4 was a success in sales. It marketed well.
However most Bethesda fans / youtube click bait normies will outwardly admit that Fallout 4 is inferior to Fallout 3.

Personally I disagree, I think Fallout 3 was complete shit and I actually prefer Fallout 4.. but Fallout 4 released at Bethesda's peak of fame and was the first game where people had buyers remorse, everyone and their grandma loves Skyrim.

@Vergil claiming FO76 was a "purdy good game" is just a massive cope though. Anyone who watched that trash fire knows that Bethesda spent their entire political capital there. Between the Nylon Bags, Bethesda leaking peoples information, the aggressive microtransactions, the bugs (lighting, falling through the world, etc) and the lack of content (no npcs!!). Fallout 76 was a blunder and it's peak sales on steam are lower than New Vegas.

Starfield is on that same trajectory, it probably sold okay but again, the consumer goodwill is gone. People aren't shy about calling Bethesda out anymore, as Emil is now learning first hand. If you take Starfields 2 delays into account the game was in dev for 10ish years but partly that is Fallout 76's fault.

It's morally correct to swindle people who spend an extra $100 to get "gamer swag" with their video game and I respect Bethesda more for doing it

I've been thinking, if they just made the series in an entirely new US region instead of in one where there's heavy lore development already, all this lore drama would've been avoided.

Destroying existing lore is a feature, not a bug.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 10:19

gastovski wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 09:42

I think Fallout4 sold very well despite for its shittines i thought most people acknowledge this already

It obviously sold under expectations compared to Skyrim or they'd go around touting its sales figures. The same reason EA never released sales figures for Dragon Age Inquisition. Publishers don't release those for games that don't do as well as expected. The same reason they don't talk about the copies sold for Starslop but instead total players, which includes gamepass.

We've received news reports from Bethesda on the total copies of Skyrim sold multiple times over the years:
2013, 20 million sold: https://archive.ph/20150428171537/http: ... -xbox-one/
2016, 30 million sold: https://web.archive.org/web/20161122050 ... it-w451761
2023, 60 million sold: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/skyri ... 0-6515101/

Fallout 4: *chirp*
Only thing we know is the total number shipped at launch.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/504 ... out-games/

I'm too lazy to check sources (it ask registration)

Anon wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 12:37

I've been thinking, if they just made the series in an entirely new US region instead of in one where there's heavy lore development already, all this lore drama would've been avoided.

Nearly all of the iconic factions and locations of the series were not made by Bethesda. So the series must play it safe, and we wind up with BoS, Enclave, NCR again.

Element wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 12:58

Anon wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 12:37

I've been thinking, if they just made the series in an entirely new US region instead of in one where there's heavy lore development already, all this lore drama would've been avoided.

Nearly all of the iconic factions and locations of the series were not made by Bethesda. So the series must play it safe, and we wind up with BoS, Enclave, NCR again.

Yes but AFAIK, correct me if I'm wrong, all these factions are spreadout through all of US. So they could've just made new stories with these factions (like they're already doing) in a new US region.

Anon wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 13:04

all these factions are spreadout through all of US

Only if you go by Bethesda "canon".

Brotherhood of Steel was local, and by the time Fallout 2 comes around are a spent force barely hanging on. Same thing with the super mutants - they were a direct result of the Master's experiments, and without him and his facilities, and lacking the ability to reproduce, they were destined for extinction by the end of Fallout 1. The NCR is, obviously, local to California. Ditto for the Enclave, from everything we know in Fallout 2, they were solely based on the Oil Rig, with a few outposts scattered around the Fallout 1/2 map.

I can't quite recall how widespread the contamination and mutation of the wildlife was due to the FEV getting released into the atmosphere, but I seriously doubt it would reach the East Coast.

Bethesda pretty much took all the iconic stuff from the two original games and transplanted to the East Coast without rhyme or reason, mostly because they lack the ability to create anything worthwhile of their own, as Starfield has shown.

Shillitron wrote: ↑ April 18th, 2024, 12:19

@Vergil claiming FO76 was a "purdy good game" is just a massive cope though. Anyone who watched that trash fire knows that Bethesda spent their entire political capital there. Between the Nylon Bags, Bethesda leaking peoples information, the aggressive microtransactions, the bugs (lighting, falling through the world, etc) and the lack of content (no npcs!!). Fallout 76 was a blunder and it's peak sales on steam are lower than New Vegas..

Congrats on totally missing the point of what I was saying.