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WaterMage wrote: ↑ March 15th, 2026, 04:54
Disagreed. Pick the "old" games heavily criticized. Like Gothic 3, they are a masterpiece compared to Forspoken, Concord, Concord 2(Highguard), Concord 3(Marathon), 1348 ex voto, ArcaniA, Diablo immortal, etc. Hell, if we pick the most generic diablo clone from 00s, it is a masterpiece compared to Diablo 3/4 and Immortal.

Oops. I meant old tabletop games with ****** rules.

I get up the effort to gather my cool dice, my player books, my garb. I get real in the mood. I'm going to role play!
I meet with my friends, we share a meal, we start discussing characters, we gather and sit. The DM approaches...
"Welcome adventurers, prepare for your journey! To inform you of your quest, let me consult the rulebook."

He pulls out his smartphone.

► Show Spoiler

Rand wrote: ↑ March 15th, 2026, 04:43

J1M wrote: ↑ March 14th, 2026, 00:30
Would you accept that a virtual tabletop serves different needs as well, and that using a ruleset created for a physical tabletop with a VTT also is in the position of trying to serve two masters with the same set of rules? And since we already have several rulesets that focus on physical tabletop, it would be best to have a ruleset that is designed for a VTT given how common it is for people to use a VTT these days?
Since I don't and won't use a VTT, the answer is an unqualified: "No, I won't accept that".
I don't want my tabletop or computer games to be constrained by something I'll never use.

I want computer games to use systems that leverage computer power to do complex calculations for greater realism and such that is too time-consuming and complex for humans to do.
I want table top games to use systems that encourage the type of games I like, which are not 5th edition D&D.
And I want Critical Role and VTTs to cease to exist.

Of course, you may feel differently and that's fine.
But you asked me what I wanted and would accept.

There has been an explosion of D&D adjacent games. I think if you looked into something like Herioc Deeds or other less known games you would find something built for the tabletop experience that you want.

Even if you personally don't want a VTT-focused D&D ruleset, you have to see the utility of such a thing acting as a containment zone so that everything you are interested in isn't being bent towards a VTT experience in a half-hearted attempt to address an unsolved problem.

Just play GURPS

shhhhh don't hit me.

As much as I like the concept of a flexible "universal" tabletop system, my main gripe with a system as old as GURPS is that I have no idea which edition is the best one.

In the case of 3.5 Dungeons & Dragons, the way I became familiarized with it was through the PC games that used it as the system, similar to how I learned Pathfinder 1e through the Owlcat games and 2e AD&D through the OG Baldur's Gate and Torment games.

Likewise, I'm certain that I could warm up to GURPS if I play a PC game that implemented its system properly.

Just play Old-school Essential or OSRIC.

Trickster wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 08:53
Just play Old-school Essential or OSRIC.

Or Basic Fantasy.

https://garysentus.blogspot.com/2026/04 ... eally.html

Very interesting. Just from the comparative of 2.0 to 3.0 here it seems OSRIC is to AD&D what Pathfinder is to D&D 3.5.
And you can download the PDFs for free from DrivethruRPG.

Play KNAVE 2.0.

Killagain665 wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 16:45
https://garysentus.blogspot.com/2026/04 ... eally.html

Very interesting. Just from the comparative of 2.0 to 3.0 here it seems OSRIC is to AD&D what Pathfinder is to D&D 3.5.
And you can download the PDFs for free from DrivethruRPG.

16. The monk class is now present

UltraFan123 wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 02:16
As much as I like the concept of a flexible "universal" tabletop system, my main gripe with a system as old as GURPS is that I have no idea which edition is the best one.

While Third Edition has its charms to a grognard like me, Fourth Edition is generally somewhat better and a bit more polished.

That being said, it's not a game for the stupid or casual. AT MINIMUM, the GM must be an expert and have a good recall of the rules, which are advanced in difficulty from most systems.
The play is even better with players that have a firm grasp of the system as well.

Wow rusty hate Monk class that much?

Rand wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 20:34
Fourth Edition is generally somewhat better if you want to play wow on tabletop

Fixed

WaterMage wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 21:52

Rand wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 20:34
Fourth Edition is generally somewhat better if you want to play wow on tabletop
Fixed

WoW is a tactical miniatures game?

It is made with "muh balance" in mind and zero concern about mechanics and lore being in line.

Honestly, balance cultism destroys RPGs as much as equality cultism destroys IRL societies.

I'll end this early by stating he was referring to gurps

Thanks. GURPS 4e is good. But is very hard to DM, I agree with that. Is just that this is a D&D Thread.

Anyway, discuss psionics in AD&D, in 3.5e, in 4e and 5e.

Killagain665 wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 21:28
Wow rusty hate Monk class that much?

As is right

Killagain665 wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 21:28
Wow rusty hate Monk class that much?

I hate them even more.
And bards.

WaterMage wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 22:51
It is made with "muh balance" in mind and zero concern about mechanics and lore being in line.

Honestly, balance cultism destroys RPGs as much as equality cultism destroys IRL societies.

WaterMage wrote: ↑ April 28th, 2026, 23:03
Thanks. GURPS 4e is good. But is very hard to DM, I agree with that. Is just that this is a D&D Thread.

That's why I quoted the original in my reply to the implied question.

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