No Alphabets 4.5.2 — Baldur's Gate 3

[Luckmann]

@loregamer do you know how to summon npc with script extender?

Yes, I'll see if I can help him out later today. Pretty sure he can just run a simple TeleportTo command and everything should be hunky dory.

I actually think I managed to figure this out myself, using

Code: Select all

Osi.TeleportTo("6c55edb0-901b-4ba4-b9e8-3475a8392d9b", GetHostCharacter())

but unfortunately it didn't help. Spawning Aylin into Ramazith's Tower doesn't trigger anything by itself. So that one's out.

[orinEsque]

@loregamer do you know how to summon npc with script extender?

Yes, I'll see if I can help him out later today. Pretty sure he can just run a simple TeleportTo command and everything should be hunky dory.

I actually think I managed to figure this out myself, using

Code: Select all

Osi.TeleportTo("6c55edb0-901b-4ba4-b9e8-3475a8392d9b", GetHostCharacter())

but unfortunately it didn't help. Spawning Aylin into Ramazith's Tower doesn't trigger anything by itself. So that one's out.

So act 3, the first time i played it 3 different quests were bugged out and i had to restart my to a much earlier save

. 
 

I wonder if that would help....

[decapitan]

Thank you for this Project, and thank you ModHQ for hosting an alternative platform free of the woke fascists on other sites.

[Luckmann]

Yes, I'll see if I can help him out later today. Pretty sure he can just run a simple TeleportTo command and everything should be hunky dory.

I actually think I managed to figure this out myself, using

Code: Select all

Osi.TeleportTo("6c55edb0-901b-4ba4-b9e8-3475a8392d9b", GetHostCharacter())

but unfortunately it didn't help. Spawning Aylin into Ramazith's Tower doesn't trigger anything by itself. So that one's out.

So act 3, the first time i played it 3 different quests were bugged out and i had to restart my to a much earlier save

. 
 
I wonder if that would help....

I mean yeah, maybe, we've had several broken flags in Act 3, and Act 3 is just a complete fucking mess in general, but even just playing in the Lower City is a pain in the ass, because whenever we transition to the main hub the game breaks down for my gf, and the only workaround we've found to work is to have me transition, then switch characters with hers, have me transition, and then switch back, and if we try to load in the main hub of the Lower City it's got like an 80% chance to not load properly for her. Since we only have a few hours to play Friday to Sunday, it's slow going.

I've loaded back as far as I'm really willing, which is from before we entered Sorcerous Sundries, and it looks like we're just going to have to stab Lorroakan in the face, live without ever seeing the scenes (this is our "good" playthrough; we'll probably replay the game, but we're unlikely to have the same outcomes and scenes, especially since this is the game which we've got Gale and Shadowheart with us) and hope things just work themselves out somehow.

I've been messing around with flags today, trying to find some appropriate ones to turn on/off, but I haven't found any that makes a difference and makes Aylin actually move and go meet Lorroakan.

Is there some full list of usable script/script extender console commands somewhere? I was thinking if there's actually some command for talking to NPC's, maybe it could be tried to get Aylin to engage Lorroakan in conversation, but that's a long shot, but the only thing I can think of at this point.

... fascists ...

Literally the opposite, my dude.

[nielspeterdejong]

Thank you so much for making this! A question though: I want to use all your changes, does that mean that I have to select all the links and download them? Or is there a single file that contains all the changes?

[Tipfy]

I want to use all your changes, does that mean that I have to select all the links and download them? Or is there a single file that contains all the changes?
Top

Hi, all part work independently of each other but you do want to use all the "Mandatory" ones. (Aestheticc, Voice & the Lingo of your choice)

[orinEsque]

I want to use all your changes, does that mean that I have to select all the links and download them? Or is there a single file that contains all the changes?
Top

Hi, all part work independently of each other but you do want to use all the "Mandatory" ones. (Aestheticc, Voice & the Lingo of your choice)

Thank you so much for making this! A question though: I want to use all your changes, does that mean that I have to select all the links and download them? Or is there a single file that contains all the changes?

Tipfy is correct, you need all three labelled mandatory. Unless you want a different language, then you get one of the translations instead of English Lingo.

[GalahadTheSeeker]

This makes me wanna do it even less.

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

[Acrux]

This makes me wanna do it even less.

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

[orinEsque]

This makes me wanna do it even less.

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

That aside i would prefer not to release separate versions till i have a bit more community feedback. Hard to improve it without it.

@Acrux Literally all you old fags do is lash out. You must be women then.

[Godjjjita]

This makes me wanna do it even less.

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

I wish The website had a facepalm reaction for times like this. Everyone has a bad day once in a while, everyone can be a little bit rude and considering the mainstream hate on Orin one would expect her to vent more often (And her conservative peers to support her). All things considered she is the paragon of politeness and I'm not saying this to simp or anything, I'm just disappointed that our side is not united despite having the mainstream media and literal governments against us.

[Anon]

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

I wish The website had a facepalm reaction for times like this. Everyone has a bad day once in a while, everyone can be a little bit rude and considering the mainstream hate on Orin one would expect her to vent more often (And her conservative peers to support her). All things considered she is the paragon of politeness and I'm not saying this to simp or anything, I'm just disappointed that our side is not united despite having the mainstream media and literal governments against us.

It's mostly cringe squabbling from all parts, don't mind them too much

[Acrux]

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

I wish The website had a facepalm reaction for times like this. Everyone has a bad day once in a while, everyone can be a little bit rude and considering the mainstream hate on Orin one would expect her to vent more often (And her conservative peers to support her). All things considered she is the paragon of politeness and I'm not saying this to simp or anything, I'm just disappointed that our side is not united despite having the mainstream media and literal governments against us.

1. She's not a conservative by her own admission.
2. Look at literally any time she's confronted by something on this site. She either lashes out or passive agressively deflects.
3. She's a - she's a - BG3 modder.

[GalahadTheSeeker]

This makes me wanna do it even less.

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

Don't be ridiculous. She could have any number of reasons to lash out at me but her sex has nothing to do with it. Regardless, this is just pointless squabbling - let's just move on.

[BobT]

You don't need to take it so personally. I'm just saying that it needs some polishing which I'm sure you will or won't get to if you deem it appropriate. I didn't mean it as an insult or a pseudo-criticism.

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

Don't be ridiculous. She could have any number of reasons to lash out at me but her sex has nothing to do with it. Regardless, this is just pointless squabbling - let's just move on.

I think mentioning what you consider is unpolished would help.
The mod has drastically improved over time specifically from other's feedback on here.

[GalahadTheSeeker]

What else do you expect from a woman? She is a child who is unable to accept criticsm without lashing out.

Don't be ridiculous. She could have any number of reasons to lash out at me but her sex has nothing to do with it. Regardless, this is just pointless squabbling - let's just move on.

I think mentioning what you consider is unpolished would help.
The mod has drastically improved over time specifically from other's feedback on here.

Sure, why not - keep in mind that these are probably beyond any modder until official support comes out (which is why I left my comment vague in the first place):

He should really have a unique head, the default one is used by a ton of human NPCs.
The AI voice is extremely obvious, not to mention a bit clunky at times. Again, nothing Orin can do about it since the technology is still in its relative infancy.
Even though he is a man now, his animations remain very much feminine. If they could somehow be swapped (maybe with Halsin's anims?) it would look much better.

Seeing as these "issues" are mostly out of Orin's hands, I'd just recommend making a separated version for the time being. Just my two cents.

[orinEsque]

Don't be ridiculous. She could have any number of reasons to lash out at me but her sex has nothing to do with it. Regardless, this is just pointless squabbling - let's just move on.

I think mentioning what you consider is unpolished would help.
The mod has drastically improved over time specifically from other's feedback on here.

Sure, why not - keep in mind that these are probably beyond any modder until official support comes out (which is why I left my comment vague in the first place):

He should really have a unique head, the default one is used by a ton of human NPCs.
The AI voice is extremely obvious, not to mention a bit clunky at times. Again, nothing Orin can do about it since the technology is still in its relative infancy.
Even though he is a man now, his animations remain very much feminine. If they could somehow be swapped (maybe with Halsin's anims?) it would look much better.

Seeing as these "issues" are mostly out of Orin's hands, I'd just recommend making a separated version for the time being. Just my two cents.

Thanks, that helps. Creating a new mesh is definitely something I can do. But didn't bother because no one mentioned it. I'll add it to my to do list.

Animations, her idle animations / battle animations can be swapped. But her scripted ones in conversation and cinematics are mocapped, not sure if that one can be fixed.

We're working actively to fix the screams and so on that make the ai bit obvious. Because there's a lot we're working on, separating out the different parts of NA are on the back burner. But it's already on my list fyi.


Ignore Acrux. He and his Ilk are salty assholes.

[GalahadTheSeeker]

I think mentioning what you consider is unpolished would help.
The mod has drastically improved over time specifically from other's feedback on here.

Sure, why not - keep in mind that these are probably beyond any modder until official support comes out (which is why I left my comment vague in the first place):

He should really have a unique head, the default one is used by a ton of human NPCs.
The AI voice is extremely obvious, not to mention a bit clunky at times. Again, nothing Orin can do about it since the technology is still in its relative infancy.
Even though he is a man now, his animations remain very much feminine. If they could somehow be swapped (maybe with Halsin's anims?) it would look much better.

Seeing as these "issues" are mostly out of Orin's hands, I'd just recommend making a separated version for the time being. Just my two cents.

Thanks, that helps. Creating a new mesh is definitely something I can do. But didn't bother because no one mentioned it. I'll add it to my to do list.

Animations, her idle animations / battle animations can be swapped. But her scripted ones in conversation and cinematics are mocapped, not sure if that one can be fixed.

We're working actively to fix the screams and so on that make the ai bit obvious. Because there's a lot we're working on, separating out the different parts of NA are on the back burner. But it's already on my list fyi.


Ignore Acrux. He and his Ilk are salty assholes.

Great news, best of luck to you! And thanks for considering my input.

[Godjjjita]

Don't be ridiculous. She could have any number of reasons to lash out at me but her sex has nothing to do with it. Regardless, this is just pointless squabbling - let's just move on.

I think mentioning what you consider is unpolished would help.
The mod has drastically improved over time specifically from other's feedback on here.

Sure, why not - keep in mind that these are probably beyond any modder until official support comes out (which is why I left my comment vague in the first place):

He should really have a unique head, the default one is used by a ton of human NPCs.
The AI voice is extremely obvious, not to mention a bit clunky at times. Again, nothing Orin can do about it since the technology is still in its relative infancy.
Even though he is a man now, his animations remain very much feminine. If they could somehow be swapped (maybe with Halsin's anims?) it would look much better.

Seeing as these "issues" are mostly out of Orin's hands, I'd just recommend making a separated version for the time being. Just my two cents.

How feminine are the animations? I've stopped playing in the beginning of act 3 in patch 4 because of bugs and decided to wait for the final version to play again. There are many cultures in which cultured and noble man can have a more feminine behaviour while still being very much a man, France for example. I don't need sir Aylin to scratch his balls and spit to the side, just think of him as a noble and fancy Aasimar.

[orinEsque]

I think mentioning what you consider is unpolished would help.
The mod has drastically improved over time specifically from other's feedback on here.

Sure, why not - keep in mind that these are probably beyond any modder until official support comes out (which is why I left my comment vague in the first place):

He should really have a unique head, the default one is used by a ton of human NPCs.
The AI voice is extremely obvious, not to mention a bit clunky at times. Again, nothing Orin can do about it since the technology is still in its relative infancy.
Even though he is a man now, his animations remain very much feminine. If they could somehow be swapped (maybe with Halsin's anims?) it would look much better.

Seeing as these "issues" are mostly out of Orin's hands, I'd just recommend making a separated version for the time being. Just my two cents.

How feminine are the animations? I've stopped playing in the beginning of act 3 in patch 4 because of bugs and decided to wait for the final version to play again. There are many cultures in which cultured and noble man can have a more feminine behaviour while still being very much a man, France for example. I don't need sir Aylin to scratch his balls and spit to the side, just think of him as a noble and fancy Aasimar.

It's not as bad as astarion. She is a bit too expressive and stands funny sometimes.

[LemonDemonGirl]

It's not as bad as astarion. She is a bit too expressive and stands funny sometimes.

To be far, male elves are known for being, well, gay

[Luckmann]

Even though he is a man now, his animations remain very much feminine. If they could somehow be swapped (maybe with Halsin's anims?) it would look much better.

Aside from maybe a very few outliers, I disagree on this one. While yes, the animation mannerism is somewhat effeminate, I never considered it out-of-place, whether we attribute it to haughty noblesse oblige arrogance (which I think fits the character very well especially as a male, because as a female it would stand out as pretentious bossladyism) or to Aylin's origin as a "son of Selûne" (which would be something more as a half-celestial and far more than a mere aasimar, but I don't expect Larian to know the difference, for which reason I've decided that Aylin's claim to be the child of Selûne is allegorical).

I think that changing the animations to be that of Halsin (if such a thing would even be possible, which I question without having to go through every single interaction for issues) would be a mistake, because I feel like it'd be at odds with the voice and cadence and choice of words that Aylin is using. It would fundamentally change the character, and while someone might say "that's the point", I just don't see the need for it.

I love myself the Keldorn archetype and feel its absence in the game. But not everyone needs to be Keldorn. Sometimes characters are Anomen.

[Braintoast93]

[/quote]I love myself the Keldorn archetype and feel its absence in the game. But not everyone needs to be Keldorn. Sometimes characters are Anomen.
[/quote]

Keldorn was one of my most favourite characters in BG 2. My lawful good warrior, Keldorn and Minsc were a dream team fighting against evil and shared a huge amount of respect for each other. I missed this kind of compagnionship in BG 3. While my compagnions in BG 3 growd on me over time I never got the feeling that they fight for the same reasons. Everybody had their own goals and only the tadpoles hold them together as a group. The only string between them, aside from the tadpoles, was the main character. In my playthrough he was the one who guided them to the right path. Persuasion is what I remembered the most when talking to them. Lae'zel was the only character who didn't had crazy ambitions. She had the strongest spirit and a clear moral code and didn't need much guidance. Gale on the other hand, Astarion, Shadowheart and Wyll and even Karlach would have destroyed themselves and/or those around them if they had freedom of choice. They were all puppets or victims of masters and gods and their ambitions were selfish and often emotionally driven.
It is ironic, because I played as the Dark Urge and I let him make all the right decisions to be a better version of himself instead of what he was supposed to be and all around him had to follow his example because he persuaded them all. I miss the times compagnions were more independent but had some kind of philosophy or worldview which influenced their decisions, not some scaly dragonborn who is good with his tongue.

It was always going like this:
Idiot: "I am about to do something right now. Screw the gods, screw these people, screw you."
Dark Urge (Persuasion): "Nah, this is stupid."
Idiot: "Okay, you're right. I'm not doing it. I have thought about my life and my decisions. I'm another person now. From the first moment I met you I had a feeling that you are something special. You are my best friend."
And so on...

I am exaggerating now, of course there was a story for every character from chapter 1 onwards, but in chapter 3 all those storys came together and in the very last moments they still could change their minds in an instant if you threw the dices right. I didn't matter what happened in the first two chapters, except for some major decisions. There was no character development which would have closed some options completely. Consequences weren't in sight, they all got their happy end. I followed the patch notes and I know this has something to do with whiny players who couldn't accept bad outcomes for some characters. Karlach is probably the most changed one for that matter. Or Minthara, who is the most unfitting compagnion for a "good" group, but there are some individuals who didn't want to kill her to protect the grove in chapter 1, because she is "cute" and a "mamma", whatever that means. So you take a power hungry drow with you who is never going to lay down her ambitions, together with Wyll and Karlach, because Larian deleted the perma death of her and add the option to just knock her out to please some simps. Why would you knock her out in this situation, while killing the whole goblion stronghold? Doesn't matter, feels good, man.
I enjoyed Jaheira and Minsc the most, even if I didn't want them in the game but in my opinion they got them right. They even included a tribute to Khalid and pictured him as I imagined him myself and therefore probs to Larian. They really have a talented team and without modern Zeitgeist and "feel good" fans they could have produced a milestone of a game. Imagine characters from the first two games in BG 3 with all the possibilities of modern technology and more conservative social and elements from the 90s, it would be mindblowing.

[pokafox]

I enjoyed Jaheira and Minsc the most, even if I didn't want them in the game but in my opinion they got them right. They even included a tribute to Khalid and pictured him as I imagined him myself and therefore probs to Larian. They really have a talented team and without modern Zeitgeist and "feel good" fans they could have produced a milestone of a game. Imagine characters from the first two games in BG 3 with all the possibilities of modern technology and more conservative social and elements from the 90s, it would be mindblowing.

This is pretty much the sad conclusion I felt by the end of the game. I struggled so hard to like my companions and feel connected to them in Act 1 & 2, and by the time I met Jaheira and especially Minsc, it became crystal clear why. I was left pondering over how great the game could have been if more characters had been written this way as you are.

That said, I wouldn't attribute those 2 characters to how "talented" a team Larian is. It's ironic the only characters that make any sense (save maybe for Laezel as you also said) in the whole game are characters they didn't create and added as a tribute. And again this stands especially true for Minsc not as much for Jaheira.

I don't know if you played DOS1 and 2, but Larian just doesn't write characters like that, which is why I always thought it was a bad idea for them to do Baldur's Gate 3 at all. DOS2 might be their most "serious" game but even that one is nothing like BG1 & 2 in spirit and is littered with current era jokes and moral relativism, which is pretty much the very concept of both games.

BG1 & 2 is D&D DMed by an oldschool guy who takes his story and immersion seriously.

Larian is the quirky DM who inserts personal jokes and breaks the 4th wall.

I'm not saying Larian isn't a talented team at all btw.

[Anon]

I love myself the Keldorn archetype and feel its absence in the game. But not everyone needs to be Keldorn. Sometimes characters are Anomen.


Keldorn was one of my most favourite characters in BG 2. My lawful good warrior, Keldorn and Minsc were a dream team fighting against evil and shared a huge amount of respect for each other. I missed this kind of compagnionship in BG 3. While my compagnions in BG 3 growd on me over time I never got the feeling that they fight for the same reasons. Everybody had their own goals and only the tadpoles hold them together as a group. The only string between them, aside from the tadpoles, was the main character. In my playthrough he was the one who guided them to the right path. Persuasion is what I remembered the most when talking to them. Lae'zel was the only character who didn't had crazy ambitions. She had the strongest spirit and a clear moral code and didn't need much guidance. Gale on the other hand, Astarion, Shadowheart and Wyll and even Karlach would have destroyed themselves and/or those around them if they had freedom of choice. They were all puppets or victims of masters and gods and their ambitions were selfish and often emotionally driven.
It is ironic, because I played as the Dark Urge and I let him make all the right decisions to be a better version of himself instead of what he was supposed to be and all around him had to follow his example because he persuaded them all. I miss the times compagnions were more independent but had some kind of philosophy or worldview which influenced their decisions, not some scaly dragonborn who is good with his tongue.

It was always going like this:
Idiot: "I am about to do something right now. Screw the gods, screw these people, screw you."
Dark Urge (Persuasion): "Nah, this is stupid."
Idiot: "Okay, you're right. I'm not doing it. I have thought about my life and my decisions. I'm another person now. From the first moment I met you I had a feeling that you are something special. You are my best friend."
And so on...

I am exaggerating now, of course there was a story for every character from chapter 1 onwards, but in chapter 3 all those storys came together and in the very last moments they still could change their minds in an instant if you threw the dices right. I didn't matter what happened in the first two chapters, except for some major decisions. There was no character development which would have closed some options completely. Consequences weren't in sight, they all got their happy end. I followed the patch notes and I know this has something to do with whiny players who couldn't accept bad outcomes for some characters. Karlach is probably the most changed one for that matter. Or Minthara, who is the most unfitting compagnion for a "good" group, but there are some individuals who didn't want to kill her to protect the grove in chapter 1, because she is "cute" and a "mamma", whatever that means. So you take a power hungry drow with you who is never going to lay down her ambitions, together with Wyll and Karlach, because Larian deleted the perma death of her and add the option to just knock her out to please some simps. Why would you knock her out in this situation, while killing the whole goblion stronghold? Doesn't matter, feels good, man.
I enjoyed Jaheira and Minsc the most, even if I didn't want them in the game but in my opinion they got them right. They even included a tribute to Khalid and pictured him as I imagined him myself and therefore probs to Larian. They really have a talented team and without modern Zeitgeist and "feel good" fans they could have produced a milestone of a game. Imagine characters from the first two games in BG 3 with all the possibilities of modern technology and more conservative social and elements from the 90s, it would be mindblowing.

Larian's character writing is direct consequence of nowadays nihilism, where everything is meant to be nuanced and cynical, points proven meaningless and all that. Heroism is secondary, sometimes even seen as silly. Unless you want to promote wokeism obviously, that's why they made Wyll (the black origin character) a goody two-shoes instead of the yet another nuanced character he was meant to be in early development.

There are setting where this philosophy can work (such as in world of darkness), but never in high fantasy settings, which was written and conceived by people who always wrote it as being a manicheistic setting (good vs evil). These new writers are corrupting very stablished settings, but that's what they've come for anyways, they're only doing their job. The issue is on players who find it acceptable and advertise that slop as great writing.

edit: quote function is bugged. fix pls @rusty_shackleford

Edit2: oh apparently it messed up because the username I quoted start his post using [/quote] twice. Guess it fits his username though

[Braintoast93]

I love myself the Keldorn archetype and feel its absence in the game. But not everyone needs to be Keldorn. Sometimes characters are Anomen.


Keldorn was one of my most favourite characters in BG 2. My lawful good warrior, Keldorn and Minsc were a dream team fighting against evil and shared a huge amount of respect for each other. I missed this kind of compagnionship in BG 3. While my compagnions in BG 3 growd on me over time I never got the feeling that they fight for the same reasons. Everybody had their own goals and only the tadpoles hold them together as a group. The only string between them, aside from the tadpoles, was the main character. In my playthrough he was the one who guided them to the right path. Persuasion is what I remembered the most when talking to them. Lae'zel was the only character who didn't had crazy ambitions. She had the strongest spirit and a clear moral code and didn't need much guidance. Gale on the other hand, Astarion, Shadowheart and Wyll and even Karlach would have destroyed themselves and/or those around them if they had freedom of choice. They were all puppets or victims of masters and gods and their ambitions were selfish and often emotionally driven.
It is ironic, because I played as the Dark Urge and I let him make all the right decisions to be a better version of himself instead of what he was supposed to be and all around him had to follow his example because he persuaded them all. I miss the times compagnions were more independent but had some kind of philosophy or worldview which influenced their decisions, not some scaly dragonborn who is good with his tongue.

It was always going like this:
Idiot: "I am about to do something right now. Screw the gods, screw these people, screw you."
Dark Urge (Persuasion): "Nah, this is stupid."
Idiot: "Okay, you're right. I'm not doing it. I have thought about my life and my decisions. I'm another person now. From the first moment I met you I had a feeling that you are something special. You are my best friend."
And so on...

I am exaggerating now, of course there was a story for every character from chapter 1 onwards, but in chapter 3 all those storys came together and in the very last moments they still could change their minds in an instant if you threw the dices right. I didn't matter what happened in the first two chapters, except for some major decisions. There was no character development which would have closed some options completely. Consequences weren't in sight, they all got their happy end. I followed the patch notes and I know this has something to do with whiny players who couldn't accept bad outcomes for some characters. Karlach is probably the most changed one for that matter. Or Minthara, who is the most unfitting compagnion for a "good" group, but there are some individuals who didn't want to kill her to protect the grove in chapter 1, because she is "cute" and a "mamma", whatever that means. So you take a power hungry drow with you who is never going to lay down her ambitions, together with Wyll and Karlach, because Larian deleted the perma death of her and add the option to just knock her out to please some simps. Why would you knock her out in this situation, while killing the whole goblion stronghold? Doesn't matter, feels good, man.
I enjoyed Jaheira and Minsc the most, even if I didn't want them in the game but in my opinion they got them right. They even included a tribute to Khalid and pictured him as I imagined him myself and therefore probs to Larian. They really have a talented team and without modern Zeitgeist and "feel good" fans they could have produced a milestone of a game. Imagine characters from the first two games in BG 3 with all the possibilities of modern technology and more conservative social and elements from the 90s, it would be mindblowing.

Larian's character writing is direct consequence of nowadays nihilism, where everything is meant to be nuanced and cynical, points proven meaningless and all that. Heroism is secondary, sometimes even seen as silly. Unless you want to promote wokeism obviously, that's why they made Wyll (the black origin character) a goody two-shoes instead of the yet another nuanced character he was meant to be in early development.

There are setting where this philosophy can work (such as in world of darkness), but never in high fantasy settings, which was written and conceived by people who always wrote it as being a manicheistic setting (good vs evil). These new writers are corrupting very stablished settings, but that's what they've come for anyways, they're only doing their job. The issue is on players who find it acceptable and advertise that slop as great writing.

edit: quote function is bugged. fix pls @rusty_shackleford

Edit2: oh apparently it messed up because the username I quoted start his post using

twice. Guess it fits his username though
[/quote]

I tried to quote just the last sentence of Luckman but I failed. I guess you are right about my mind state

[Braintoast93]

I enjoyed Jaheira and Minsc the most, even if I didn't want them in the game but in my opinion they got them right. They even included a tribute to Khalid and pictured him as I imagined him myself and therefore probs to Larian. They really have a talented team and without modern Zeitgeist and "feel good" fans they could have produced a milestone of a game. Imagine characters from the first two games in BG 3 with all the possibilities of modern technology and more conservative social and elements from the 90s, it would be mindblowing.

This is pretty much the sad conclusion I felt by the end of the game. I struggled so hard to like my companions and feel connected to them in Act 1 & 2, and by the time I met Jaheira and especially Minsc, it became crystal clear why. I was left pondering over how great the game could have been if more characters had been written this way as you are.

That said, I wouldn't attribute those 2 characters to how "talented" a team Larian is. It's ironic the only characters that make any sense (save maybe for Laezel as you also said) in the whole game are characters they didn't create and added as a tribute. And again this stands especially true for Minsc not as much for Jaheira.

I don't know if you played DOS1 and 2, but Larian just doesn't write characters like that, which is why I always thought it was a bad idea for them to do Baldur's Gate 3 at all. DOS2 might be their most "serious" game but even that one is nothing like BG1 & 2 in spirit and is littered with current era jokes and moral relativism, which is pretty much the very concept of both games.

BG1 & 2 is D&D DMed by an oldschool guy who takes his story and immersion seriously.

Larian is the quirky DM who inserts personal jokes and breaks the 4th wall.

I'm not saying Larian isn't a talented team at all btw.

No I didn't play other games from Larian. I liked the class sytem and the overall gameplay of Baldur's Gate 3 - I'm not a fan of the turn based combat though - but that's why I think the team has talent. I enjoyed exploring and fighting. Writing and characters could have been better.
According to personal jokes - yes, many things seemed to be in the game because some of them found it funny and had to insert it into the world, wether it fits or not. Especially the behavior of Karlach towards Jaheira and Minsc was going on my nerves. I wish there was some random punch button as an option in every dialoge scene, just for cases like this. The only option for this I have witnessed was in Rivington, when you could punch that one mercenary. I pressed it instnantly before I even checked the other options

[GalahadTheSeeker]

I enjoyed Jaheira and Minsc the most, even if I didn't want them in the game but in my opinion they got them right. They even included a tribute to Khalid and pictured him as I imagined him myself and therefore probs to Larian. They really have a talented team and without modern Zeitgeist and "feel good" fans they could have produced a milestone of a game. Imagine characters from the first two games in BG 3 with all the possibilities of modern technology and more conservative social and elements from the 90s, it would be mindblowing.

This is pretty much the sad conclusion I felt by the end of the game. I struggled so hard to like my companions and feel connected to them in Act 1 & 2, and by the time I met Jaheira and especially Minsc, it became crystal clear why. I was left pondering over how great the game could have been if more characters had been written this way as you are.

That said, I wouldn't attribute those 2 characters to how "talented" a team Larian is. It's ironic the only characters that make any sense (save maybe for Laezel as you also said) in the whole game are characters they didn't create and added as a tribute. And again this stands especially true for Minsc not as much for Jaheira.

I don't know if you played DOS1 and 2, but Larian just doesn't write characters like that, which is why I always thought it was a bad idea for them to do Baldur's Gate 3 at all. DOS2 might be their most "serious" game but even that one is nothing like BG1 & 2 in spirit and is littered with current era jokes and moral relativism, which is pretty much the very concept of both games.

BG1 & 2 is D&D DMed by an oldschool guy who takes his story and immersion seriously.

Larian is the quirky DM who inserts personal jokes and breaks the 4th wall.

I'm not saying Larian isn't a talented team at all btw.

No I didn't play other games from Larian. I liked the class sytem and the overall gameplay of Baldur's Gate 3 - I'm not a fan of the turn based combat though - but that's why I think the team has talent. I enjoyed exploring and fighting. Writing and characters could have been better.
According to personal jokes - yes, many things seemed to be in the game because some of them found it funny and had to insert it into the world, wether it fits or not. Especially the behavior of Karlach towards Jaheira and Minsc was going on my nerves. I wish there was some random punch button as an option in every dialoge scene, just for cases like this. The only option for this I have witnessed was in Rivington, when you could punch that one mercenary. I pressed it instnantly before I even checked the other options

I strongly recommend you check out Divinity Original Sin 2 at least. It's still Larian's best work and I will die on this hill.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

This is pretty much the sad conclusion I felt by the end of the game. I struggled so hard to like my companions and feel connected to them in Act 1 & 2, and by the time I met Jaheira and especially Minsc, it became crystal clear why. I was left pondering over how great the game could have been if more characters had been written this way as you are.

That said, I wouldn't attribute those 2 characters to how "talented" a team Larian is. It's ironic the only characters that make any sense (save maybe for Laezel as you also said) in the whole game are characters they didn't create and added as a tribute. And again this stands especially true for Minsc not as much for Jaheira.

I don't know if you played DOS1 and 2, but Larian just doesn't write characters like that, which is why I always thought it was a bad idea for them to do Baldur's Gate 3 at all. DOS2 might be their most "serious" game but even that one is nothing like BG1 & 2 in spirit and is littered with current era jokes and moral relativism, which is pretty much the very concept of both games.

BG1 & 2 is D&D DMed by an oldschool guy who takes his story and immersion seriously.

Larian is the quirky DM who inserts personal jokes and breaks the 4th wall.

I'm not saying Larian isn't a talented team at all btw.

No I didn't play other games from Larian. I liked the class sytem and the overall gameplay of Baldur's Gate 3 - I'm not a fan of the turn based combat though - but that's why I think the team has talent. I enjoyed exploring and fighting. Writing and characters could have been better.
According to personal jokes - yes, many things seemed to be in the game because some of them found it funny and had to insert it into the world, wether it fits or not. Especially the behavior of Karlach towards Jaheira and Minsc was going on my nerves. I wish there was some random punch button as an option in every dialoge scene, just for cases like this. The only option for this I have witnessed was in Rivington, when you could punch that one mercenary. I pressed it instnantly before I even checked the other options

I strongly recommend you check out Divinity Original Sin 2 at least. It's still Larian's best work and I will die on this hill.

Im with you.

[Braintoast93]

This is pretty much the sad conclusion I felt by the end of the game. I struggled so hard to like my companions and feel connected to them in Act 1 & 2, and by the time I met Jaheira and especially Minsc, it became crystal clear why. I was left pondering over how great the game could have been if more characters had been written this way as you are.

That said, I wouldn't attribute those 2 characters to how "talented" a team Larian is. It's ironic the only characters that make any sense (save maybe for Laezel as you also said) in the whole game are characters they didn't create and added as a tribute. And again this stands especially true for Minsc not as much for Jaheira.

I don't know if you played DOS1 and 2, but Larian just doesn't write characters like that, which is why I always thought it was a bad idea for them to do Baldur's Gate 3 at all. DOS2 might be their most "serious" game but even that one is nothing like BG1 & 2 in spirit and is littered with current era jokes and moral relativism, which is pretty much the very concept of both games.

BG1 & 2 is D&D DMed by an oldschool guy who takes his story and immersion seriously.

Larian is the quirky DM who inserts personal jokes and breaks the 4th wall.

I'm not saying Larian isn't a talented team at all btw.

No I didn't play other games from Larian. I liked the class sytem and the overall gameplay of Baldur's Gate 3 - I'm not a fan of the turn based combat though - but that's why I think the team has talent. I enjoyed exploring and fighting. Writing and characters could have been better.
According to personal jokes - yes, many things seemed to be in the game because some of them found it funny and had to insert it into the world, wether it fits or not. Especially the behavior of Karlach towards Jaheira and Minsc was going on my nerves. I wish there was some random punch button as an option in every dialoge scene, just for cases like this. The only option for this I have witnessed was in Rivington, when you could punch that one mercenary. I pressed it instnantly before I even checked the other options

I strongly recommend you check out Divinity Original Sin 2 at least. It's still Larian's best work and I will die on this hill.

I will consider it, thanks for the recommendation.