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The book thread.
IME sci-fi and fantasy/other fluff is fine via audiobook, but metaphysics and other technical work requires the visual aspect for proper memory logging. Reminds me of Year 9 maths, where everyone really liked the teacher, but he gave us the class notes via printouts, instead of making us write it down in our textbooks like the years before, which caused massively deflated scores in the end of year exams despite him being a great teacher.
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I'd have a lot of trouble following along if I just listened, but maybe it's because Vance is so flowery with his words and very otherworldly in his descriptions.ManjuShri wrote: ↑ April 27th, 2024, 02:33IME sci-fi and fantasy/other fluff is fine via audiobook, but metaphysics and other technical work requires the visual aspect for proper memory logging. Reminds me of Year 9 maths, where everyone really liked the teacher, but he gave us the class notes via printouts, instead of making us write it down in our textbooks like the years before, which caused massively deflated scores in the end of year exams despite him being a great teacher.
Sometimes I feed the descriptions into ChatGPT's image maker to see what it makes.
watercolor image as painted by a master painterGuyal said no word. Across the lake he noticed a trio of the crescent boats approaching the docks, prows and sterns rocking and dipping into the shaded water with a graceful motion. The void in his mind made itself , known. "Why are boats constructed in such fashion?"
The Castellan looked blankly at him. "It is the only practicable method. Do not the oe-pods grow thusly to the south?"
"Never have I seen oe-pods."
"They are the fruit of a great vine, and grow in scimitar-shape. When sufficiently large, we cut and clean them, slit the inner edge, grapple end to end with strong line and constrict till the pod opens as is desirable.
Then when cured, dried, varnished, carved, burnished, and lacquered; fitted with deck, thwarts and gussets—then have we our boats."
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on April 27th, 2024, 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Amusing to see words on Wiktionary where the only quote is from Vance
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scintillant
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scintillant
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And finished with the first compilation(The Dying Earth, 1950.) Excellent. Vance is flowery with his prose, but not overly wordy to get details across. It's truly reading something that cannot be made anymore.
This is an out of context quote, but from near the end of Guyal of Sfere, so I'm going to spoil it:
Another example, this passage is very information dense:
You should read it if you haven't. If it were up to me, every teenage student would be required to read this as part of a class on important fictional works.
This is an out of context quote, but from near the end of Guyal of Sfere, so I'm going to spoil it:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
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I'm nearly finished with SotT, only six or so pages left. I wish I'd read them sooner, but there's so much else to read. Anyhow, I liked everything, but the Garden sequence was too long, and I understand the author wanted to place Urth in our world with the jungle encounter, but it was boring and stayed too long. EVERYTHING but the Garden and the leading up to the flower combat was great, as in 8/10 to 9/10. The worldbuilding is perfectly executed, leaving so much to the imagination that I feel lost, and so I needed to keep reading for more. The narrator can list too many fancy words, sometimes. Its always welcome seeing new words and guessing, or sometimes looking up, their meaning, but there are a few times where he lists them like "look at how many words for boat I know". 8/10 book, really just didn't like from after he kissed Agia the first time, through the flower combat. I'd have handled it differently.
Last edited by maidenhaver on May 3rd, 2024, 10:27, edited 1 time in total.
Wolfe was probably the smartest writer of the past 100 years. I don't know of anyone else who wrote books where you can come away with a completely different story and meaning by reading it again. And almost everything he wrote is like that.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 10:27The narrator can list too many fancy words, sometimes. Its always welcome seeing new words and guessing, or sometimes looking up, their meaning, but there are a few times where he lists them like "look at how many words for boat I know".
► Show Spoiler
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Acrux wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:02Wolfe was probably the smartest writer of the past 100 years. I don't know of anyone else who wrote books where you can come away with a completely different story and meaning by reading it again. And almost everything he wrote is like that.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 10:27The narrator can list too many fancy words, sometimes. Its always welcome seeing new words and guessing, or sometimes looking up, their meaning, but there are a few times where he lists them like "look at how many words for boat I know".
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
I was tempted to buy the Lexicon Urthus, but I don't want to rob my imagination. I love going with the flow, and Wolfe gives me that.
Last edited by maidenhaver on May 3rd, 2024, 11:24, edited 2 times in total.
At some point, there were too many archaic words that it felt like a waste of time to look them up each time. The advice I received was to use context clues and not let the words slow me down.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 10:27The narrator can list too many fancy words, sometimes. Its always welcome seeing new words and guessing, or sometimes looking up, their meaning, but there are a few times where he lists them like "look at how many words for boat I know".
The most difficult time I had with all of Wolfe's books was realizing that he was writing real people with heroic characteristics, and not heroic archetypes. Which meant, people who were great, who were wonderful, who were used by God for Earth-shattering acts. But they were also perfectly capable of committing, or being roped into, the most heinous evils.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:17Acrux wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:02Wolfe was probably the smartest writer of the past 100 years. I don't know of anyone else who wrote books where you can come away with a completely different story and meaning by reading it again. And almost everything he wrote is like that.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 10:27The narrator can list too many fancy words, sometimes. Its always welcome seeing new words and guessing, or sometimes looking up, their meaning, but there are a few times where he lists them like "look at how many words for boat I know".
► Show SpoilerIt doesn't matter► Show Spoiler
I was tempted to buy the Lexicon Urthus, but I don't want to rob my imagination. I love going with the flow, and Wolfe gives me that.
Severian, Silk, Horn, Latro, Able - none of them are free of tarnish.
It makes re-readings incredibly satisfying.
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How filled with rape are they? Is it like explicit scenes? I want to read them but if they have cringe game of thrones stuff or Japanese misery porn I'll pass. If it's filled with badass men pillaging and killing I'm for it though. What's a good book to start with?Kalarion wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 00:05The most difficult time I had with all of Wolfe's books was realizing that he was writing real people with heroic characteristics, and not heroic archetypes. Which meant, people who were great, who were wonderful, who were used by God for Earth-shattering acts. But they were also perfectly capable of committing, or being roped into, the most heinous evils.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:17Acrux wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:02
Wolfe was probably the smartest writer of the past 100 years. I don't know of anyone else who wrote books where you can come away with a completely different story and meaning by reading it again. And almost everything he wrote is like that.
► Show SpoilerIt doesn't matter► Show Spoiler
I was tempted to buy the Lexicon Urthus, but I don't want to rob my imagination. I love going with the flow, and Wolfe gives me that.
Severian, Silk, Horn, Latro, Able - none of them are free of tarnish.
It makes re-readings incredibly satisfying.
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read them in orderNooneatall wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 01:12How filled with rape are they? Is it like explicit scenes? I want to read them but if they have cringe game of thrones stuff or Japanese misery porn I'll pass. If it's filled with badass men pillaging and killing I'm for it though. What's a good book to start with?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_New_Sun
Wolfe is the anti-Martin.Nooneatall wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 01:12How filled with rape are they? Is it like explicit scenes? I want to read them but if they have cringe game of thrones stuff or Japanese misery porn I'll pass. If it's filled with badass men pillaging and killing I'm for it though. What's a good book to start with?Kalarion wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 00:05The most difficult time I had with all of Wolfe's books was realizing that he was writing real people with heroic characteristics, and not heroic archetypes. Which meant, people who were great, who were wonderful, who were used by God for Earth-shattering acts. But they were also perfectly capable of committing, or being roped into, the most heinous evils.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:17It doesn't matter► Show Spoiler
I was tempted to buy the Lexicon Urthus, but I don't want to rob my imagination. I love going with the flow, and Wolfe gives me that.
Severian, Silk, Horn, Latro, Able - none of them are free of tarnish.
It makes re-readings incredibly satisfying.
Rape scenes are rare, and nothing explicit (at least to my memory). As Kalarion says, they are heroic characters who are capable of doing terrible things. They don't do those terrible things often, and feel bad when they do.
The Wizard Knight is probably his most accessible book, but not his best IMO. Book of the New Sun is a good place to start, too. Just be prepared - Wolfe's books are dense. Every word he uses is carefully chosen.
They aren't. From what I remember - and it's been almost a decade now, I really need to re-read all of them - there are a total of three instances. One is implied ongoing rape at the beginning of Shadow of the Torturer (and implication is as far as it goes, although the implication is pretty heavy). Another is an explicit rape in book two of the Book of the Short Sun (on Green's Waters), although it's not described in excruciating detail beyond stating it happened. The final instance (and the worst, especially because of the circumstances of the book's protagonist) occurs in Soldier of Arete, where a Spartan is shown to be raping a young boy in a terrible pedophiliac relationship. Again the rape is not given detail, it's just made very clear that it's occurring.Nooneatall wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 01:12How filled with rape are they? Is it like explicit scenes? I want to read them but if they have cringe game of thrones stuff or Japanese misery porn I'll pass. If it's filled with badass men pillaging and killing I'm for it though. What's a good book to start with?Kalarion wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 00:05The most difficult time I had with all of Wolfe's books was realizing that he was writing real people with heroic characteristics, and not heroic archetypes. Which meant, people who were great, who were wonderful, who were used by God for Earth-shattering acts. But they were also perfectly capable of committing, or being roped into, the most heinous evils.maidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 3rd, 2024, 11:17It doesn't matter► Show Spoiler
I was tempted to buy the Lexicon Urthus, but I don't want to rob my imagination. I love going with the flow, and Wolfe gives me that.
Severian, Silk, Horn, Latro, Able - none of them are free of tarnish.
It makes re-readings incredibly satisfying.
Last edited by Kalarion on May 5th, 2024, 01:59, edited 1 time in total.
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I've started reading the first book.Kalarion wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 01:51They aren't. From what I remember - and it's been almost a decade now, I really need to re-read all of them - there are a total of three instances. One is implied ongoing rape at the beginning of Shadow of the Torturer (and implication is as far as it goes, although the implication is pretty heavy). Another is an explicit rape in book two of the Book of the Short Sun (on Green's Waters), although it's not described in excruciating detail beyond stating it happened. The final instance (and the worst, especially because of the circumstances of the book's protagonist) occurs in Soldier of Arete, where a Spartan is shown to be raping a young boy in a terrible pedophiliac relationship. Again the rape is not given detail, it's just made very clear that it's occurring.Nooneatall wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 01:12How filled with rape are they? Is it like explicit scenes? I want to read them but if they have cringe game of thrones stuff or Japanese misery porn I'll pass. If it's filled with badass men pillaging and killing I'm for it though. What's a good book to start with?Kalarion wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 00:05
The most difficult time I had with all of Wolfe's books was realizing that he was writing real people with heroic characteristics, and not heroic archetypes. Which meant, people who were great, who were wonderful, who were used by God for Earth-shattering acts. But they were also perfectly capable of committing, or being roped into, the most heinous evils.
Severian, Silk, Horn, Latro, Able - none of them are free of tarnish.
It makes re-readings incredibly satisfying.
How's The Book of the Long Sun and The Book of the Short Sun?
Long and short, with many archaic words peppered throughout the books. They're interesting books that get better with every reading.ManjuShri wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 03:09How's The Book of the Long Sun and The Book of the Short Sun?
Last edited by Nemesis on May 5th, 2024, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Should I read Vance's The Eyes of the Overworld next or Wolfe's Book of the New Sun?
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Nylund's The Fall of Reachrusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 16:07Should I read Vance's The Eyes of the Overworld next or Wolfe's Book of the New Sun?
"David Gemmell"
Seconded.
Anything from him is good.
Seconded.
Anything from him is good.
Eyes of the Overworld is my favourite of the Dying Earth series. If you're going to take a break, do it after that, as the next book is another Cugel story.rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 5th, 2024, 16:07Should I read Vance's The Eyes of the Overworld next or Wolfe's Book of the New Sun?
Last edited by ManjuShri on May 6th, 2024, 01:50, edited 1 time in total.
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@Wretch have not seen you around in a while, but I wanted to let you know I finally found the book you advised me to read
I am unsure how long will it take me to finish, I usually read books at my own pace (and honestly, I sometimes re-read pages just because I like reading in general), but I will let you know how I found it if I can finish it. God willing, I will have enough time. Even if you might not be active or around anymore, I will do as I said I would and keep it public in case it might help others find interest in this book or find some use in this.
► Show Spoiler
He's gone since the "indignant priest" role he was playing got played out.
PS: Good luck reading that book
Last edited by Irenaeus on May 9th, 2024, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Thank youIrenaeus wrote: ↑ May 9th, 2024, 14:19He's gone since the "indignant priest" role he was playing got played out.
PS: Good luck reading that book
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Finished The Burgundians a Vanished Empire by Bart Van Loo, pretty good book occasionally bogged down by the typical problems of modern historical writing like the author feeling the need to talk (thankfully not for very long) about Jean D'arc being the first feminist or speculation that Charles le Téméraire might have been gay. Mostly it was quite enjoyable though and a good overview of the important bits of Burgundian history and would recommend overall.
Also read The Thirty Years War by C. V. Wedgwood was just quality all around, no complaints at all and a hearty recommendation. I don't even have much to say because it was just a great book about an interesting time period and covered it all quite efficiently.
Also read The Thirty Years War by C. V. Wedgwood was just quality all around, no complaints at all and a hearty recommendation. I don't even have much to say because it was just a great book about an interesting time period and covered it all quite efficiently.
i wish i had not wasted so much time in youth reading books like only couple of them had useful shit in them
just bad for eye sight
that being said, while u guys read all the stuff, how about u write if u learn something in most compact/practical format possible. there is saying if book/sience paper cannot be summarized to 1 or 2 pages of data its probably trash.
just bad for eye sight
that being said, while u guys read all the stuff, how about u write if u learn something in most compact/practical format possible. there is saying if book/sience paper cannot be summarized to 1 or 2 pages of data its probably trash.
Last edited by Red7 on May 11th, 2024, 07:02, edited 1 time in total.
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I've written many science papers and published hundreds of books on advice for young, fatherless men.Red7 wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2024, 07:01i wish i had not wasted so much time in youth reading books like only couple of them had useful shit in them
just bad for eye sight
that being said, while u guys read all the stuff, how about u write if u learn something in most compact/practical format possible. there is saying if book/sience paper cannot be summarized to 1 or 2 pages of data its probably trash.
jordan peterstein made millions of this scam gigmaidenhaver wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2024, 11:56I've written many science papers and published hundreds of books on advice for young, fatherless men.Red7 wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2024, 07:01i wish i had not wasted so much time in youth reading books like only couple of them had useful shit in them
just bad for eye sight
that being said, while u guys read all the stuff, how about u write if u learn something in most compact/practical format possible. there is saying if book/sience paper cannot be summarized to 1 or 2 pages of data its probably trash.
The Swarm really is 1800 pages...bloody hell.
I too will write a novel.
It will be called The Pencil.
A young man will be playing with a pencil, which he will stick up his nose.
But damn, then it's stuck. He can't get it out.
A young woman will try to help him get the pencil out. But she will fail.
The pencil will be stuck up her nose too, courtesy of her lack of pencil skill.
Flashbacks to her youth when she always used a pen.
Then they will walk around like that. Many adventures will happen.
They will ask people to help them get the pencil out.
But because they have a pencil up their noses, hence talk funny (and, stuck together, walk funny) people will just laugh at them.
So they won't help them.
They find true love. Tragically, however, in each case, it's somebody else.
A thousand pages later the pencil will still be up both their noses.
But it will not matter, because the bridge they are finally walking on will tragically collapse. Because they live in china or something, which is the big twist and reveal.
"Gimme my Stephen King money" like some guy said.
I too will write a novel.
It will be called The Pencil.
A young man will be playing with a pencil, which he will stick up his nose.
But damn, then it's stuck. He can't get it out.
A young woman will try to help him get the pencil out. But she will fail.
The pencil will be stuck up her nose too, courtesy of her lack of pencil skill.
Flashbacks to her youth when she always used a pen.
Then they will walk around like that. Many adventures will happen.
They will ask people to help them get the pencil out.
But because they have a pencil up their noses, hence talk funny (and, stuck together, walk funny) people will just laugh at them.
So they won't help them.
They find true love. Tragically, however, in each case, it's somebody else.
A thousand pages later the pencil will still be up both their noses.
But it will not matter, because the bridge they are finally walking on will tragically collapse. Because they live in china or something, which is the big twist and reveal.
"Gimme my Stephen King money" like some guy said.