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RPGs with experimental mechanics
- rusty_shackleford
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RPGs with experimental mechanics
I assume most of these are going to be from ~1995-2003 era, but what are some RPGs with experimental mechanics that didn't catch on or you thought were neat?
- Oyster Sauce
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darklands character creation system is still unique
Good theme for a thread. A list would be interesting.
1. One of the Final Fantasy titles had a pretty interesting AI where you can select the tactics strategy to take for companions but forgot which one it was...it was never repeated. (I think it was a Final Fantasy.)
2. Not only in RPGs but asymmetry is usually pretty lacking.
Some guy rewrote pong so that one paddle is like this ___________________ and the other paddle is like this __. (MIT Press said wow amazing and published a book about it.)
So what ever happened to games where class X is easier to play and learn to play and overall just better and stronger than class Y? But then X lacks some of the really fun or cool things that can be done by Y and only by Y? Even though playing as Y is plain harder and not optimal. Merely cool.
Any RPGs with really asymmetric lack of balance in character creation that still worked?
Gothic 2 to some extent but it's balanced by the fact that mages become more powerful near the end. What about completely and obviously unbalanced?
1. One of the Final Fantasy titles had a pretty interesting AI where you can select the tactics strategy to take for companions but forgot which one it was...it was never repeated. (I think it was a Final Fantasy.)
2. Not only in RPGs but asymmetry is usually pretty lacking.
Some guy rewrote pong so that one paddle is like this ___________________ and the other paddle is like this __. (MIT Press said wow amazing and published a book about it.)
So what ever happened to games where class X is easier to play and learn to play and overall just better and stronger than class Y? But then X lacks some of the really fun or cool things that can be done by Y and only by Y? Even though playing as Y is plain harder and not optimal. Merely cool.
Any RPGs with really asymmetric lack of balance in character creation that still worked?
Gothic 2 to some extent but it's balanced by the fact that mages become more powerful near the end. What about completely and obviously unbalanced?
- Val the Moofia Boss
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I wound up writing down a lot about neat mechanics I saw in games, and then tried shaving the fluff but it might still be too wordy. Oops.
FF12 lets you program each character what exactly you want them to do ie. Ie, use a heal spell on anyone below 50% HP. If no one needs to be healed, then cast a fire spell at monsters that are doused in oil. If there are no monsters doused in oil, then douse a monster in oil. Etc. Crystal Chronicles allows you to pick broad, pre-set strategies for characters. Ie, "go nuts with magic" if you want them casting spells.
► Show Spoiler
There are two FF games that do this.NotAI wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 03:431. One of the Final Fantasy titles had a pretty interesting AI where you can select the tactics strategy to take for companions but forgot which one it was...it was never repeated. (I think it was a Final Fantasy.)
FF12 lets you program each character what exactly you want them to do ie. Ie, use a heal spell on anyone below 50% HP. If no one needs to be healed, then cast a fire spell at monsters that are doused in oil. If there are no monsters doused in oil, then douse a monster in oil. Etc. Crystal Chronicles allows you to pick broad, pre-set strategies for characters. Ie, "go nuts with magic" if you want them casting spells.
Gothic series does this as well, your character's combat animations change depending on your skill level.Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 04:52Final Fantasy IX (2000, July 7)
+ Tidus starts out having just picked up a sword for the first time in his life, and his animations reflect that. As the game goes on and Tidus becomes more experienced, his animations show him becoming more adept with wielding his sword. IIRC the only other game I know of that does something like this is Fire Emblem 8.
Wizardry
- the game saves the game state with every step you take and during every combat round, and you can't manually save the game. It creates a sense of permanence which makes exploration feel more meaningful.
- combat is phase-based; you give every character orders all at once, without foreknowledge of what the enemy will do, and then the characters execute their action. this creates a layer of depth where the player has to pay attention to what's happening and make guesses or gambles instead of simply reacting to what happened.
- a lot of the game's mechanics are black-boxed by design. An example being exactly what helps or hinders a resurrection chance. The player can make educated guesses and will usually be correct (character class, race, age, manner of death), but it's still black-boxed. Most of the inner workings are like that and it creates mystery.
- death is not the end of gameplay. if your party dies "you" return to town and are free to create a new party. you can even rescue your old party member's corpses and take them to get revived, though this is not guaranteed.
It presents an interesting question as to who "you", the player, actually are within the context of the game...
Well, not really, no one cares about that because we all know it's just a game. But I wanted to write that sentence and feel like an asshole for typing it XD
- the game saves the game state with every step you take and during every combat round, and you can't manually save the game. It creates a sense of permanence which makes exploration feel more meaningful.
- combat is phase-based; you give every character orders all at once, without foreknowledge of what the enemy will do, and then the characters execute their action. this creates a layer of depth where the player has to pay attention to what's happening and make guesses or gambles instead of simply reacting to what happened.
- a lot of the game's mechanics are black-boxed by design. An example being exactly what helps or hinders a resurrection chance. The player can make educated guesses and will usually be correct (character class, race, age, manner of death), but it's still black-boxed. Most of the inner workings are like that and it creates mystery.
- death is not the end of gameplay. if your party dies "you" return to town and are free to create a new party. you can even rescue your old party member's corpses and take them to get revived, though this is not guaranteed.
It presents an interesting question as to who "you", the player, actually are within the context of the game...
Well, not really, no one cares about that because we all know it's just a game. But I wanted to write that sentence and feel like an asshole for typing it XD
Last edited by aweigh on May 2nd, 2024, 05:08, edited 1 time in total.
- rusty_shackleford
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This actually has a gameplay effect toowndrbr wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 05:04Gothic series does this as well, your character's combat animations change depending on your skill level.Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 04:52Final Fantasy IX (2000, July 7)
+ Tidus starts out having just picked up a sword for the first time in his life, and his animations reflect that. As the game goes on and Tidus becomes more experienced, his animations show him becoming more adept with wielding his sword. IIRC the only other game I know of that does something like this is Fire Emblem 8.
- Nooneatall
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The destroyed it because it was too fun. Everything is about "balance" now so you can't have an easy class for beginners and a hard class for experienced classes. Now you get a set of weak boring classes that all do the same stuff, but the enemies are also weak so you still get through the game (movie)NotAI wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 03:43Good theme for a thread. A list would be interesting.
1. One of the Final Fantasy titles had a pretty interesting AI where you can select the tactics strategy to take for companions but forgot which one it was...it was never repeated. (I think it was a Final Fantasy.)
2. Not only in RPGs but asymmetry is usually pretty lacking.
Some guy rewrote pong so that one paddle is like this ___________________ and the other paddle is like this __. (MIT Press said wow amazing and published a book about it.)
So what ever happened to games where class X is easier to play and learn to play and overall just better and stronger than class Y? But then X lacks some of the really fun or cool things that can be done by Y and only by Y? Even though playing as Y is plain harder and not optimal. Merely cool.
Any RPGs with really asymmetric lack of balance in character creation that still worked?
Gothic 2 to some extent but it's balanced by the fact that mages become more powerful near the end. What about completely and obviously unbalanced?
Does Alpha Protocol's dialogue wheel count, or does the credit go to BioWare, with Obsidian's sole accomplishment being them finding out how to make the idea worse?
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Imagine if we didn't have playtesters and focus groups, we'd have all kinds of cool mechanics.
Reminds me of Anthem, the failed bioware game. The only mechanic worth mentioning was the flight, and the only reason they kept it in was to not piss off an EA executive. The EA exec came to their office to test the game right before they were about to remove the feature, and he commented how much he loved the flying, so they felt obligated to keep it in.
Reminds me of Anthem, the failed bioware game. The only mechanic worth mentioning was the flight, and the only reason they kept it in was to not piss off an EA executive. The EA exec came to their office to test the game right before they were about to remove the feature, and he commented how much he loved the flying, so they felt obligated to keep it in.
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on May 2nd, 2024, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
I blame less the playtesters, and more developres for listening to the input of mouthbreathers.rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 15:50Imagine if we didn't have playtesters and focus groups, we'd have all kinds of cool mechanics.
Did Valve really need to change that antlion cave section just because one retard kept running in circles?
Did Arkane really need to modify parts of Dishonored just because some playtesters were too stupid to figure out a guard not telling them to go somewhere is not an order to be followed (in a stealth game where you are a fugitive)?
Catering to the dumbest fuckwits in the audience is a choice.
You mean Anthem?Reminds me of Titanfall, the failed bioware game
The game was doomed from the start, BioWare certainly did not have the experience or infrastructure to make and maintain an always-online looter shooter.
Last edited by gerey on May 2nd, 2024, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Woops, yep.
They did, it was just at their other studio that was already running an MMORPG. Bioware had no business making another GaaS.gerey wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 15:57The game was doomed from the start, BioWare certainly did not have the experience or infrastructure to make and maintain an always-online looter shooter.
Very reminiscent of Bethesda doing the exact same thing with FO76 when their sister developer Zenimax Online was already operating Elder Scrolls Online.
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on May 2nd, 2024, 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
When I first played NWN I really liked the radial menu, I thought that would become the new norm. Now I just hate it...
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Radial menus are perfection!1998 wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 16:04When I first played NWN I really liked the radial menu, I thought that would become the new norm. Now I just hate it...
That one works better for sure, at least its spelling out things. NWN all you get is icons you need to memorize.rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 16:05Radial menus are perfection!1998 wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 16:04When I first played NWN I really liked the radial menu, I thought that would become the new norm. Now I just hate it...
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Ah man, forgot SWGrusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 16:05Radial menus are perfection!1998 wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 16:04When I first played NWN I really liked the radial menu, I thought that would become the new norm. Now I just hate it...
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@Kalarion we need to play SWG sometime, all three versions.
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Let me know when you guys are going to play that's one of my favorite games.rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 16:20@Kalarion we need to play SWG sometime, all three versions.
There's an RPG where you lose levels as you gain XP. Can't remember the name.
So essentially the game discourages combat and the difficulty increases over time which can be mitigated by understanding the systems.
As you can imagine this will not ever be a mainstream feature.
So essentially the game discourages combat and the difficulty increases over time which can be mitigated by understanding the systems.
As you can imagine this will not ever be a mainstream feature.
Last edited by J1M on May 2nd, 2024, 22:11, edited 1 time in total.
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J1M wrote: ↑ May 2nd, 2024, 22:11There's an RPG where you lose levels as you gain XP. Can't remember the name.