Unconventional opinions of RPGs

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
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Acrux
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Unconventional opinions of RPGs

Post by Acrux »

Can anyone sell me on Planescape? I understand it's considered the pinnacle of a great RPG by so many, but for 20 years now I've have a hard time not just seeing it as a visual novel. The writing is overwrought. The combat is terrible. The overall gameplay is lacking. The ending is nihilistic.

Now, that being said, I love Siege of Avalon, and that's nearly a visual novel as well. But while the combat is much worse, I find the writing better, the story more compelling, and character customization more in-depth (not to mention the best paperdoll of any RPG).
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Post by Emphyrio »

Why should anyone try to sell you on a game you already played and didn't like
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Post by J1M »

Planescape gets a circumstance bonus from many people for being their first experience with the intersection of fantasy and mature themes.
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Post by Acrux »

Emphyrio wrote: March 30th, 2023, 15:57
Why should anyone try to sell you on a game you already played and didn't like
First time around here?
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Post by WhiteShark »

Unconventional Opionion: Roguelikes are the truest form of RPG. No other subtype of RPG so well integrates the simulationist nature of RPGs with the resource scarcity and consequences necessary for a proper game.
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ds.
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Post by ds. »

Mayhap you are just not looking at it in the right way...

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But yeah if you already played it and weren't impressed by the story then I'm not sure what you expect anyone to sell you.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: March 30th, 2023, 17:24
Unconventional Opionion: Roguelikes are the truest form of RPG. No other subtype of RPG so well integrates the simulationist nature of RPGs with the resource scarcity and consequences necessary for a proper game.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/dont-call ... -rogue-dev

(These guys are the original creators of Rogue for the unaware)
When people talk about permadeath, they talk about us three being mean. 'Oh, they wanted to make it extra hard, so they threw in permadeath.' … permadeath is an example of 'consequence persistence.' … Do I read this scroll, do I drink this potion? I don't know. It might be good. It might be bad. If I can save the game and then drink the potion and—oh, it's bad-then I restore the game and I don't drink the potion. That entire game mechanic just completely goes away. So that was a whole reason why once you have taken an action and a consequence has happened, there's no way to go back and undo it.

The good stuff is just as permanent as the bad stuff.
What's missing from RPGs is consequence persistence.
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Post by The_Mask »

Acrux wrote: March 30th, 2023, 03:09
Can anyone sell me on Planescape? I understand it's considered the pinnacle of a great RPG by so many, but for 20 years now I've have a hard time not just seeing it as a visual novel. The writing is overwrought. The combat is terrible. The overall gameplay is lacking. The ending is nihilistic.
It's because the game finds a way to speak to you. And because you find out cool shit about the people you're travelling with. And everyone wants to be someone's best friend.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Fall-From-Grace is the best waifu in any video game and if you disagree I'll see you on the playground after class.
And that's despite Avellone hating romances.
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Post by The_Mask »

I think Avellone was pushed to answer this "favourite companion" question once, and he said that if he were to choose, he'd probably choose Fall-From-Grace.

Mine is Yves the Tale Chaser. Obviously. :D

EDIT: I realize I mentioned a character not a companion. As companion I think I like Dak'kon the most.
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Post by Acrux »

Psst...you don't only have to talk about PST. It can be for any games you have an unconventional opinion about. @WhiteShark gets it.
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Post by GhostCow »

Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dork souls manages to get the consequence persistence part right to some degree and as it turns out, people really like that their actions matter. Definitely one of the most underrated aspects/impacts of dork souls popularity.
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Post by The_Mask »

GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
I think it's well-known that I like Dark Souls a lot. But, at the same time, when someone like you comes along and says that they don't think highly of it, it feels pointless of me to argue against it. It almost feels insulting to your whole experience accumulated, and your taste.

I like it because I could see the stamina regeneration bar on top of ever mob and/or boss I've fought, and I just found the fairness in terms of pacing refreshing.

I also love the fact that people that don't pay attention to the lore, as little as it is, set themselves on fire at the end of the game.

Both you thinking it's shit, and both me thinking it's great can exist just fine.
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Post by Emphyrio »

WhiteShark wrote: March 30th, 2023, 17:24
Unconventional Opionion: Roguelikes are the truest form of RPG. No other subtype of RPG so well integrates the simulationist nature of RPGs with the resource scarcity and consequences necessary for a proper game.
A big-budget roguelike would be interesting to see. As opposed to these linear 100-hour shits.

I would like to see a roguelike Todd game.
Last edited by Emphyrio on March 30th, 2023, 22:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by J1M »

GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Okay, but this thread is about RPGs, not WWD games (wait-wait-dodge).
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Post by Emphyrio »

I've never played a Dark Souls game because it looks really boring and ugly and rolling around on the ground constantly is stupid.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Emphyrio wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:36
I've never played a Dark Souls game because it looks really boring and ugly and rolling around on the ground constantly is stupid.
I've tried the actual dork souls games and the dork souls clones, and I don't find the combat fun. Especially in the later entries that leaned fully into "dork souls games are the hardest games evarrr!!!" and you end up with garbage like this:
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Complete joke. The AI has no real fighting style or personality, just a simple state machine designed to counter the player.

And in the case of the PC ports of dork souls, the controls just feel completely unresponsive. I guess it's what console peasants are used to though?
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Post by J1M »

Yes, they confuse Japanese engineering failures of the PSX era with game design.

Resident Evil using tank controls is another example.
Last edited by J1M on March 30th, 2023, 22:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Segata Sanshiro »

I did not care for the Dark Souls series. It insists upon itself.
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Post by WhiteShark »

GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dark Souls is great and the combat is one of its strong points. Having just played Dark Messiah, the only aspect in which it's superior combat-wise is the physics interactions, but in every other aspect of combat Dark Souls blows it out of the water.
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 30th, 2023, 21:12
What's missing from RPGs is consequence persistence.
And resource scarcity, in most. And a clock.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:54
GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dark Souls is great and the combat is one of its strong points. Having just played Dark Messiah, the only aspect in which it's superior combat-wise is the physics interactions, but in every other aspect of combat Dark Souls blows it out of the water.
FACT:
any action-based combat game that features rolling as a primary mechanic is by default, stupid.
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Post by The_Mask »

J1M wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:47
Resident Evil using tank controls is another example.
I'm so glad we're over that era. Tank controls era was just the pits.
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:57
WhiteShark wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:54
GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Dark Souls is great and the combat is one of its strong points. Having just played Dark Messiah, the only aspect in which it's superior combat-wise is the physics interactions, but in every other aspect of combat Dark Souls blows it out of the water.
FACT:
any action-based combat game that features rolling as a primary mechanic is by default, stupid.
Rolling is good. Parrying is better. Rolling & Parrying is best.
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:57
FACT:
any action-based combat game that features rolling as a primary mechanic is by default, stupid.
Filtered. There is nothing wrong with rolling. The only issue is when devs give it excessive iframes.
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Post by GhostCow »

J1M wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:33
GhostCow wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:03
Here's my controversial opinion: Dark Souls is shit. Both from a storyfag standpoint and combatfag standpoint. I have no idea why anyone would think it has better combat than Gothic, Risen, Mount and Blade, or Dark Messiah.
Okay, but this thread is about RPGs, not WWD games (wait-wait-dodge).
You definitely did a better job of describing why I think the combat is shit than I did
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Post by GhostCow »

WhiteShark wrote: March 30th, 2023, 23:02
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 30th, 2023, 22:57
FACT:
any action-based combat game that features rolling as a primary mechanic is by default, stupid.
Filtered. There is nothing wrong with rolling. The only issue is when devs give it excessive iframes.
It looks retarded and no one would do it in a real fight
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

rolling is retarded because it's a complete waste of energy and it puts you on the fucking ground, the worst place you can be in a fight.
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