List of woke and non-woke role-playing games

[Element]

You are definitely exaggerating. 3 or so instances of which most are with rebels insulting your position doesn't equate to nearly all. Kyros is not the abstraction of evil whatsoever, and I never claimed as such. He is in a morally grey area. Does he do evil stuff like raze cities or tolerate the Chorus? Yes, but he also greatly improves the QoL of his subjects, builds infrastructure, guarantees housing and food to citizens, etc.

He isn't any more evil than the people he subjugates. The point that the player doesn't even fully know whether he is male or female has nothing to do with Kyros being non-binary. At the worst, he "may" be a sorceress. But again, most evidence points to him being a man, and none to him being non-binary or queer. This is such a stupid thing to claim in the first place

He? Kyros is normally referred to as "they", I am also not the only one with the impression, including with Tunon.

I'm not sure what you tell you, I think your assessment is wrong. Possibly biased, by not wanting to see or wanting to normalize this ambiguity where it was never needed a few years before Tyranny.

Kyros is normally referred to as "Kyros" or "The Overlord". The game doesn't even use pronouns when describing him, only his titles, at least for the first few hours as that is what I just skimmed through. No pronouns =/= nonbinary. Maybe you are mistaking what a wiki says for what the actual game says? And to play the devil's advocate, even if he was a woman, why would it matter? He rules in large part due to his absurd magical ability, not strength or heritage or anything based on physical biology. Female queens and Empresses were not unheard of in antiquity and medieval times either, especially if they hypothetically had world-ending magic at their disposal. You are retroactively applying modern gender politics to something and so come to the same conclusions troons do about past works.

The fact that a character cannot be ambiguous without you automatically thinking of faggots points to liberal brainrot. As Rusty stated the game does have woke elements, especially in its DLC, but Kyros is hardly one of them.

Sirin muddies the water a lot. First it's a 'she', then she switches to saying 'him' and 'his', and then refuses to elaborate.
It's the usual bullshit. They could have picked one and stuck with it. There was zero added to the game with these elaborate word games. If you're going to write a character like that, at least have the balls to do what Enderal did - making (most likely) him into something that is truly warped. Actually Nerat probably would have been a good candidate for that sort of role given that he was flaying his own family to prove loyalty to Kyros etc. Analogous to 'The Father' in Enderal.

[rusty_shackleford]

Sirin muddies the water a lot. First it's a 'she', then she switches to saying 'him' and 'his', and then refuses to elaborate.

I don't remember this at all.

[Roguey]

For example, if this was 20 years ago, you would not see women soldiers or female commanders.

Thief 2 from 2000 had female guards. Those MIT grads were quite woke for their time.

[Acrux]

Sirin muddies the water a lot. First it's a 'she', then she switches to saying 'him' and 'his', and then refuses to elaborate.

From what I remember, isn't she just being a bitch and doing what she can to goad you?

[Nammu Archag]

Sirin muddies the water a lot. First it's a 'she', then she switches to saying 'him' and 'his', and then refuses to elaborate.

From what I remember, isn't she just being a bitch and doing what she can to goad you?

yes, that's her whole schtick in the scenario. Which really only makes it less woke if she's goading you about it

[Element]

Sirin muddies the water a lot. First it's a 'she', then she switches to saying 'him' and 'his', and then refuses to elaborate.

From what I remember, isn't she just being a bitch and doing what she can to goad you?

She is, but you catch her in the inconsistency and when you ask her about it, then she does her usual routine.

[Element]

Sirin muddies the water a lot. First it's a 'she', then she switches to saying 'him' and 'his', and then refuses to elaborate.

From what I remember, isn't she just being a bitch and doing what she can to goad you?

yes, that's her whole schtick in the scenario. Which really only makes it less woke if she's goading you about it

Nope. She trips up when talking about Kyros. Then defends herself with the goading.

[Element]

For example, if this was 20 years ago, you would not see women soldiers or female commanders.

Thief 2 from 2000 had female guards. Those MIT grads were quite woke for their time.

Tbf that was an awful addition to the game

[Emphyrio]

He's only seen out of his armor in the DLC. He has a white model and an Indian portrait.

By the way, they Tali'd him

I don't think the whole Tali drama was justified. That's what stock photos are for.

Barrick looks like a trace, but you can't say 100%. Lots of (digital) artists paint over the reference or at least trace the landmarks, justifying it with "I could do it by eyeball if I wanted to, it would just take longer and nobody cares".

Sass claims that the BG portraits were his first attempt at digital art, and he wasn't an experienced artist. Pretty impressive if true.

Back in the day, as a 90s startup based in Canada, most of the BioWare employees were generalists, and we were all learning on the job.

When I started at BioWare my tasks included concepting and texturing 3-d models. Baldur's Gate needed some character portraits, and various employees tried their hand at photoshop-painting these characters. Since none of us were experienced artists at that point, nobody could seem to craft a professional-looking painting. Using photoshop version 3, my attempts seemed to be passable, so I became the portrait artist. Little did I realize, BG would be a hit, these images would resonate and I would have a 25-year career painting art for video games!

The BG1 portraits were my first digital paintings ever. Back in the day, there was no standard to copy, no instruction to follow and no inspiration to aspire to. This was the first project for all of us, and we just used intuition and experimentation for everything. Illustrative game art in the early 90s was sometimes created by the programmers or outsourced to traditional advertising agencies. In-house art talent wasn't really a thing.

In 25 years, I have learned much about traditional portraiture and digital painting techniques. These two new portraits give me the chance to create quality images using the knowledge of a seasoned professional. (To me, this is like going back to college when I'm 50 and correcting mistakes from my youth. Haha.) The past number of years I have focused on painting card art for Blizzard's Hearthstone game. I now use Corel Painter, and have a totally different process and standards. It will be interesting to see how this new portraits compare and if they even look like the same artist did them!

As you likely know, the original BG portraits were based on real people. I had taken some photos for reference for various projects in college and knew this is what professional artists did to inform their paintings. So I asked around the office for people to pose for the BG characters. I also used wives and girlfriends, as BioWare was probably 90% male. I didn't even consider using actual, paid models as it seemed like a big ask to get the bosses to pay for that. It’s also weird to go around telling random people that you want to photograph them for your fantasy project.

[Emphyrio]

you can tell this is a very serious and well-researched image because it has a question mark over black Vin Diesel.

I think Keldorn is George Clooney.

[Element]

Ok, so I've fired up the game and reloaded Leviathan's Crossing after getting Sirin in the party.

When talking of her past when she was confined to studying with the mages:


When talking of why they gave her the helmet:


When talking about what they planned on doing to her before giving her the helmet:


And it's here that you finally get the option to ask her about it:


And only then does the goading start. Everything leading up to that point Sirin answers genuinely, possibly because her loyalty is quite high ( don't know if high Fear would change the dialogue). So no, she was not doing this on purpose to tease you. Especially since these are dropped in different dialogue branches that are effectively lore dumps.

[BobT]

This will be useful for updating this list: viewtopic.php?p=63636-might-be-a-useful ... ere#p63636

[Tweed]

Ok, so I've fired up the game and reloaded Leviathan's Crossing after getting Sirin in the party.

When talking of her past when she was confined to studying with the mages:


When talking of why they gave her the helmet:


When talking about what they planned on doing to her before giving her the helmet:


And it's here that you finally get the option to ask her about it:


And only then does the goading start. Everything leading up to that point Sirin answers genuinely, possibly because her loyalty is quite high ( don't know if high Fear would change the dialogue). So no, she was not doing this on purpose to tease you. Especially since these are dropped in different dialogue branches that are effectively lore dumps.

This drives me up the fucking walls.

[Vergil]

I think this is the most I've ever seen anybody talk about Tyranny in my entire life.

[Oyster Sauce]

I missed Sirin on my playthrough and it will forever haunt me because I'm never playing Tyranny again.

[Lord of Riva]

So I have started replaying the game as well, because I like it actually as I said before:

Everyone pretending this is not at least mid-woke when not high is simply wrong, is there anyone covinced a discussion like this is not woke?

(after selecting the option with the red frame)


Not only is that hard pushed feminism which is woke in itself but it also comments on the supposedly existing Patriarchy by simply turning it (that does not exist) around.

The whole game revolves around "questioning" aspects of reality and moral, and the setting is purposefully morally relative it's premise of power makes morally right is the woke mindset to a T. That Eb is part of the "good" faction is way worse, the story premise is before the addition of the Kyros ending always revolving around opposing the overlord, either with the help of the two armies that are both kinds of awful or the better options of siding with those oppressed.

[Roguey]

Everyone pretending this is not at least mid-woke when not high is simply wrong, is there anyone covinced a discussion like this is not woke?

Were Greeks woke when they came up with the concept of Amazons?

That Eb is part of the "good" faction is way worse, the story premise is before the addition of the Kyros ending always revolving around opposing the overlord, either with the help of the two armies that are both kinds of awful or the better options of siding with those oppressed.

You're overlooking that you have the option to just slaughter them all and impose your own will. The fantasy Yes Man path.

[Lord of Riva]

Were Greeks woke when they came up with the concept of Amazons?

Please expand on what you want to say here, having myths like amazons or idk. Gods with crocodile heads are relevant, how?

You're overlooking that you have the option to just slaughter them all and impose your own will. The fantasy Yes Man path.

How is hat relevant? By that logic nothing can be woke as long as I can fight it?
Fighting things in such a game is the *normal* behavior, they are just treated as any other.

I asked this before, if we had chicks with dicks on character creation and NPCs, would it be still not woke if we were able to kill them?

What is your point? Your argument is there is nothing woke.

[maidenhaver]

Everyone pretending this is not at least mid-woke when not high is simply wrong, is there anyone covinced a discussion like this is not woke?

Were Greeks woke when they came up with the concept of Amazons?

I never played Tyranny, but the greeks fell into decadence quite a bit.

[Metalhead33]

Everyone pretending this is not at least mid-woke when not high is simply wrong, is there anyone covinced a discussion like this is not woke?

Were Greeks woke when they came up with the concept of Amazons?

I never played Tyranny, but the greeks fell into decadence quite a bit.

Ho, what's a little t(y)ranny to you?

[Mondain]

So I have started replaying the game as well, because I like it actually as I said before:

Everyone pretending this is not at least mid-woke when not high is simply wrong, is there anyone covinced a discussion like this is not woke?

(after selecting the option with the red frame)


Not only is that hard pushed feminism which is woke in itself but it also comments on the supposedly existing Patriarchy by simply turning it (that does not exist) around.

The whole game revolves around "questioning" aspects of reality and moral, and the setting is purposefully morally relative it's premise of power makes morally right is the woke mindset to a T. That Eb is part of the "good" faction is way worse, the story premise is before the addition of the Kyros ending always revolving around opposing the overlord, either with the help of the two armies that are both kinds of awful or the better options of siding with those oppressed.

That seems more like it's her personal opinion as a misandrist. You could quote Durance and make a similar argument for pillars being misogynist, no?

[Lord of Riva]

That seems more like it's her personal opinion as a misandrist. You could quote Durance and make a similar argument for pillars being misogynist, no?

She is also describing the law of the Land, so no.

Also debating Durance, a mad man, instead of the leader of the morally grey oppressed rebels is another topic all together. What Misogyny means as well and how it relates to Durance.

I am not also going to play PoE, it's worse than Tyranny. I have never played with Durance in the party either.

[Roguey]

Please expand on what you want to say here, having myths like amazons or idk. Gods with crocodile heads are relevant, how?

Amazons are not gods with crocodile heads. They're a society of strong and capable women warriors who don't allow men. I don't see this matriarchal society any different from the concept of Amazons. It's just a coomer fantasy.

How is hat relevant? By that logic nothing can be woke as long as I can fight it?
Fighting things in such a game is the *normal* behavior, they are just treated as any other.

I asked this before, if we had chicks with dicks on character creation and NPCs, would it be still not woke if we were able to kill them?

What is your point? Your argument is there is nothing woke.

I make a woke/pozzed distinction, yes. Woke games only allow for lib/leftist values. Pozzed games can allow chuddery. Tyranny is pozzed because of all the queers and possibly because of all the salivating over strong women (something men have been doing for a long time, see Amazons up above) and Barik's nonsensical race-reveal in the DLC, but it's not woke.

I've heard through the grapevine that there's a lot of internal kvetching on the Avowed team regarding colonialism and what the player can and can't be allowed to do. That's wokism in action.

[Xenich]

Anyone play Farcry 5 and the expansion enough to get an idea about it (yeah, I know its not an RPG)? It seems heavily pozzed, but I have heard some interesting takes on the issue that claims it didn't turn out the way they intended it to be.

[Lord of Riva]

Please expand on what you want to say here, having myths like amazons or idk. Gods with crocodile heads are relevant, how?

Amazons are not gods with crocodile heads. They're a society of strong and capable women warriors who don't allow men. I don't see this matriarchal society any different from the concept of Amazons. It's just a coomer fantasy.[/quote]

No, you see myths as reality, just like any feminist would.

If there were Matriarchal tribes as is suggested here, there is a reason why they did not survive in history. But as there is no evidence of women fighting, apart from a few instances of hunting or defending themselves in a last ditch effort, anyways this is a moot point.

I make a woke/pozzed distinction, yes. Woke games only allow for lib/leftist values. Pozzed games can allow chuddery. Tyranny is pozzed because of all the queers and possibly because of all the salivating over strong women (something men have been doing for a long time, see Amazons up above) and Barik's nonsensical race-reveal in the DLC, but it's not woke.

I've heard through the grapevine that there's a lot of internal kvetching on the Avowed team regarding colonialism and what the player can and can't be allowed to do. That's wokism in action.

There is nothing pozzed or woke about men salivating over the fantasy of "strong" women, are we at the point now where you want to sell chainmail bikini wearing Greatsword wielding model types woke or pozzed?

There is a definitve difference between what a strong woman is and what a feminist woman is, being woke is pretending something pathologic is normal like women being leaders because they are better than men because that *is* feminist theory. Having a queen rule or a warrior that is female in fantasy is not though. Why are you always pretending there is no difference there?

Your definition of woke vs. pozzed is btw. the opposite definition of what is described in the ingoing post by twig.

There are loads of woke and unwoke devs around, studios having policies in place, just like most forums (hello Codex) like the steam forums have rules to make it impossible to actually voice dissent on these ideas, we are all aware. That (edit: wrong title in my head) avowed may be worse than Tyranny may be true but it is irrelevant, it's simply even worse.

The lists purpose is to help people decide to avoid such content, not categorizing it by relativizing everything like a wokester in disguise like you does is not helpful in the least. There would be never anything woke around.

[Lord of Riva]

Anyone play Farcry 5 and the expansion enough to get an idea about it (yeah, I know its not an RPG)? It seems heavily pozzed, but I have heard some interesting takes on the issue that claims it didn't turn out the way they intended it to be.

Not really my kinda game, so I can't help you there.

[Xenich]

Anyone play Farcry 5 and the expansion enough to get an idea about it (yeah, I know its not an RPG)? It seems heavily pozzed, but I have heard some interesting takes on the issue that claims it didn't turn out the way they intended it to be.

Not really my kinda game, so I can't help you there.

I figured many wouldn't be into it. I liked the first one, enjoyed some the 2nd, though it got a little too repetitive, the 3rd was very "console" like in its design, but still interesting over all if you like action games that have more complex systems though Far Cry Blood Dragon is fantastic if you like 80's culture (its hilarious), the 4th one is not bad and a bit funny at times, but really just more of the same from the 3rd, I haven't played the rest as they seemed to get ridiculous in their wokeness.

[Element]

I only played the 3rd and 4th. 3rd one if I recall would be politically incorrect today, since all the 'pirates' are black beyond the Boer ringleader, an the one homo character is an antagonist. Was a pretty decent game. Should have left the psychedelic showdown against Vaas till the end, though. It goes downhill with him dead.

[Oyster Sauce]

Anyone play Farcry 5 and the expansion enough to get an idea about it (yeah, I know its not an RPG)? It seems heavily pozzed, but I have heard some interesting takes on the issue that claims it didn't turn out the way they intended it to be.

Not really my kinda game, so I can't help you there.

I figured many wouldn't be into it. I liked the first one, enjoyed some the 2nd, though it got a little too repetitive, the 3rd was very "console" like in its design, but still interesting over all if you like action games that have more complex systems though Far Cry Blood Dragon is fantastic if you like 80's culture (its hilarious), the 4th one is not bad and a bit funny at times, but really just more of the same from the 3rd, I haven't played the rest as they seemed to get ridiculous in their wokeness.

5 is fun. Race isn't mentioned, cast is mostly white. One good guy is in a WMAF relationship and is my favorite character. The local militia are your allies. There's a Trump parody you do some missions for but he's your ally. Joseph Sneed is cool.
Overall very pro-militia, pro-2A.

New Dawn has the worst villains in the series but I don't remember them doing that much. Not as good as 5.

6 stinks. Didn't play much of it.

[Rand]

I've heard through the grapevine that there's a lot of internal kvetching on the Avowed team regarding colonialism and what the player can and can't be allowed to do. That's wokism in action.

The more I see and hear about this game, the more I'm convinced it will be modern shit.