List of woke and non-woke role-playing games

[Anon]

Good job on the BG1 artist making the portraits look better than the models. I always thought Jaheiera's model would have been a cutie. Now I'm afraid to know what Branwen's model looked like.

What? They done Alora completely dirty

[rusty_shackleford]

Annalyn model looks like she could be cute.

[rusty_shackleford]

you can tell this is a very serious and well-researched image because it has a question mark over black Vin Diesel.

[Lord of Riva]

There is definitely nonbinaries with Kyros

The only reference to Kyros's gender is that nobody actually knows if he is even a man because barely anyone has ever seen him. He is a mythical entity that causes entire cities to be snuffed out overnight, yet people don't even know anything about him beyond his name. He might not even exist. You are just as obsessed about gender as the sjws are at this point. Not everything relating to gender is sjw, as for normal people there was never any sjw undertone on the topic to begin with unless you live in Weimerica or its vassals.

The game continuously pushes the question of Kyros sex in nearly all debates about the character. I already pointed to your argument in the first post on the topic, "Kyros as the abstraction of evil" but it is nonsense, the sex of Sauron is irrelevant, the sex of Kyros evidently is not.

I'm just calling a spade a spade.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'd say Tyranny is 'low-medium'. It was during, but not quite after, the reaction to the terrorist attacks of the evil gamergaters.

[wndrbr]

BG's portraits are photos of the devs taken specifically for references, arent traced, and have significant changes done to fantasy them up. Barik is a pixel-perfect trace of a character from a very well known tv show, down to his purple hoodie.

There's also Arcanum. Arcanum's portraits were traced from the various 19th century photographs, as well as from stills from contemporary movies (i.e. for example Franklin Payne is Daniel Day Lewis).

[Lord of Riva]

I'd say Tyranny is 'low-medium'. It was during, but not quite after, the reaction to the terrorist attacks of the evil gamergaters.

I want to point to the categorization by @twig when it comes to none/mild/med/high

The real question if things like gender changing characters in the setting (eg. Nerat and Kyros) are indeed Genderideology pushed into the game or if it is something else.

The game features otherwise very explicit woke content that has been brought up before, but there is certainly a difference in "Women are prominently and at least equally presented in positions of power " (mild) and "the characters actually debate with you how women are better than men, how society profits form a Matriarchy" (mid) and all the other nonsense.

I still think it's high, how it could be low is beyond me.

[rusty_shackleford]

I still think it's high, how it could be low is beyond me.

I killed most of the people when I played it besides the disfavored guys

[Element]

I'm replaying the game now and I tend towards seeing the Kyros thing as a bit woke. If they wanted to avoid it they could have easily simply chosen to call it 'it', or pick a sex and stick with it. But instead you have Sirin teasing you about it - using 'him' and 'her' in the same sentence even. Same goes for Tunon really. Could have made him a man. But if you press him he explicitly avoids answering the question in the affirmative, ranting about the justice being above such things etc. Sirin mentions that there's blankness under the mask. I still don't see why they wouldn't just make him a man, why include those dialogue options at all. I think the reason why people don't see it as above medium category is because there's a disconnect between how the game is presented at surface level, and what some of the dialogue is actually saying.

Nerat I don't see that way. 'He' is a multitude of minds. The voices imbibe the preferences of their victims when they subsume them, which is why Sirin mentions there being 'one' who wants to rape her. It's a hive mind blob.

[Element]

By the way, they Tali'd him

you're saying this as if prior to ME3's bioware laziness no one used someone's photo as a reference when creating a character portrait

Troika culture taking over Obsidian

[Lord of Riva]

I still think it's high, how it could be low is beyond me.

I killed most of the people when I played it besides the disfavored guys

Is the ability to kill people that we would see as woke just as everyone else, real evidence of it not being woke?

In that case a game with chicks and dicks could still be unwoke as long as we could kill them. I don't understand that way of thinking.

[Lord of Riva]

I'm replaying the game now and I tend towards seeing the Kyros thing as a bit woke. If they wanted to avoid it they could have easily simply chosen to call it 'it', or pick a sex and stick with it. But instead you have Sirin teasing you about it - using 'him' and 'her' in the same sentence even. Same goes for Tunon really. Could have made him a man. But if you press him he explicitly avoids answering the question in the affirmative, ranting about the justice being above such things etc. Sirin mentions that there's blankness under the mask. I still don't see why they wouldn't just make him a man, why include those dialogue options at all. I think the reason why people don't see it as above medium category is because there's a disconnect between how the game is presented at surface level, and what some of the dialogue is actually saying.

Nerat I don't see that way. 'He' is a multitude of minds. The voices imbibe the preferences of their victims when they subsume them, which is why Sirin mentions there being 'one' who wants to rape her. It's a hive mind blob.

Thanks for replaying to get information.

I disagree on Nerat but I do this off the top of my head anyways, so thanks for confirming Tunon, my memories did not fail me, Nerat becomes relevant later on though, him changing gender is pretty on the nose if you feed him sirin or verse.

EDIT: I am going to cheat here somewhat and use an endings guide from IGN:

Feeding Verse with high enough loyalty to nerat gives the following ending slide:

The Voices of Verse upends the remaining Scarlet Chorus gang bosses, reconfiguring the leadership into a pattern that suits *her* philosophy of what the army needed to become. Through *her* strength and determination, the army grows until its numbers stretch across the horizon

Feeding Sirin with high loyalty to Nerat gives the following ending slide:

The Voices of Sirin seems to be take(ing) *her* role as leader of the Scarlet Chorus with surprising grace until the day *she* begins ordering her followers around, making impossible demands and having anyone who strays from the letter of *her* request flayed in front of the army as an example.

Over the following weeks the gangs abandon *her,* striking out on their own, until *she* is left alone with a handful of the truly crazy by *her* side as *she* sings desperate songs, fruitlessly trying to force *her* army to love *her* again.

You can even feed Nerat Kills in shadow, that ends the same only Eb never mentions the new "pronouns".

The Voices of Nerat definitely changes it's "gender" based on the individual in front. It is literal "Gendertheory" from where I am standing.

[Oyster Sauce]

I thought the deal with Kyros is that anyone with knowledge of his/her origins were killed to keep it a secret for reasons you presumably would have learned if the game was finished? Kyros isn't an it, if Ebb taunts the player about it it's because you're following a leader you know nothing about. Although it has been years since I've played teehee.

[maidenhaver]

I say games featuring women in power are highly woke.

[Acrux]

you can tell this is a very serious and well-researched image because it has a question mark over black Vin Diesel.

I'm pretty sure that Jan Jansen is Josh Sawyer, too.

[Rand]

I never finished the game, but as to Kyros, I believe EVERYTHING about the identity and background is kept a state secret.
There's a part in the game where you're told a story about someone that knew Kyros visited a specific spire, and when.
Despite being an ardent follower of Kyros, that person was executed on the spot by one of Kyros' high enforcers, allegedly as a matter of the highest policy.

I assume that there's a specific in game reason (even if the devs never actually figured one out) that Kyros' identity and history are systematically deleted from all knowledge.
This being the case, Kyros has a sex, but no-one (or almost so) is allowed to know it. The ambiguity is deliberate, as is the allowance of any and all pronouns since muddying the waters serves some purpose.

That being said, with the rest of the stuff in the game, I agree with Rusty that low-medium is appropriate.
For example, if this was 20 years ago, you would not see women soldiers or female commanders.
IIRC, the Flaming Fist in Baldur's Gate and BG2 were all male, with the exception of the occasional cleric or mage spellcaster.
Ebb, being the last tidecaster left in the area, makes some sense as being high in the ranks as she is an expert resource.
However, I find it dubious that she is high commander, as fighting men wouldn't respect her militarily or follow her.
There should be male generals and commanders, and male troops.

[Acrux]

Good job on the BG1 artist making the portraits look better than the models. I always thought Jaheiera's model would have been a cutie. Now I'm afraid to know what Branwen's model looked like.

What? They done Alora completely dirty

The funny thing about that is that the model is his wife.

[Xenich]

The thing about all of this is that this layered search for woke in the past is just a realization that there have been layers of it being applied for decades which shores up with the entire goal in the first place. They couldn't just shoot straight to trannys with their junk flopping around, they had to take years to get to that point. Go way back to the start of the last century and slowly follow the progression as it was influenced into mainstream culture through very subtle growing themes which over time led to this.

This is why It was a bit depressing to wake up to a lot of it. I can go back through movies from several decades ago and now the wokism of the time stands out very clearly. Its always been there in some form or another, its just that the more you wake up, the easier it is to spot.

[Rand]

The fact that they've gone so far into absurdity in the modern era makes it easy to spot now.
It was slowly creeping in since the 90s. The gays (male homosexuals) were the wedge of the phalanx.

[Xenich]

In my opinion, the real solution to all of this content outside of political movements would be a group to get together in a professional manner and begin a project designed for removing, editing, etc... all of the content out of games, movies, films, etc.. If you could fund it in some way where it couldn't be legally challenged, I know it would receive massive support from a lot of people.

Imagine a professional coordinated effort put to removing all of this content in games, even going back through games of the past to remove/adjust anything remotely trying to push the woke angle. A lot of it would be very mild changes and with some like BG3, it would be a big project.

Then, do the same with movies, TV shows, etc... in all honesty, it isn't anything different than what the media companies have done themselves.

With AI becoming more and more powerful, the changes could become more reasonably applied while retaining continuity with the original material.

I know there are many movies where all it would take is some small edits to scenes to remove the obvious woke grandstanding, leaving only the core concept of the film.

I think there would be a massive amount of people who are sick of all this crap lining up to get the edits so they can finally have some sense of peace in play without having a gay/tranny/racism/sexism commercial popping up constantly.

[Xenich]

The fact that they've gone so far into absurdity in the modern era makes it easy to spot now.
It was slowly creeping in since the 90s. The gays (male homosexuals) were the wedge of the phalanx.

Yep, but the early decades were ripe with it as well, they were just different focuses and tactics to other goals.

For instance, 80's is heavily laden with the whole "single mom" powerful woman, don't need a man programming. I even watched an old western, I think it was a John Wayne, where there was an obvious grandstanding about the plight of illegal immigrants and how one of the characters was arrested and put in jail for housing them, but the scene was going on about how he shouldn't have been arrested, its not like he was helping them across the border. I don't remember this being a part of the main story, just a scene that was pushing the politics of the time.

This sort of political wokism is all throughout movies, which is not a surprise being who owned them, but it goes way back. I like to collect old films, and I have some of the earliest ones going back to 1915 and on. It is present in slight, to major levels depending on the film. On the flip side, there are a lot of films that have a more positive programming as well (traditional family concepts, culture and mannerisms)

[Nammu Archag]

There is definitely nonbinaries with Kyros

The only reference to Kyros's gender is that nobody actually knows if he is even a man because barely anyone has ever seen him. He is a mythical entity that causes entire cities to be snuffed out overnight, yet people don't even know anything about him beyond his name. He might not even exist. You are just as obsessed about gender as the sjws are at this point. Not everything relating to gender is sjw, as for normal people there was never any sjw undertone on the topic to begin with unless you live in Weimerica or its vassals.

The game continuously pushes the question of Kyros sex in nearly all debates about the character. I already pointed to your argument in the first post on the topic, "Kyros as the abstraction of evil" but it is nonsense, the sex of Sauron is irrelevant, the sex of Kyros evidently is not.

I'm just calling a spade a spade.

You are definitely exaggerating. 3 or so instances of which most are with rebels insulting your position doesn't equate to nearly all. Kyros is not the abstraction of evil whatsoever, and I never claimed as such. He is in a morally grey area. Does he do evil stuff like raze cities or tolerate the Chorus? Yes, but he also greatly improves the QoL of his subjects, builds infrastructure, guarantees housing and food to citizens, etc.

He isn't any more evil than the people he subjugates. The point that the player doesn't even fully know whether he is male or female has nothing to do with Kyros being non-binary. At the worst, he "may" be a sorceress. But again, most evidence points to him being a man, and none to him being non-binary or queer. This is such a stupid thing to claim in the first place

[Lord of Riva]

You are definitely exaggerating. 3 or so instances of which most are with rebels insulting your position doesn't equate to nearly all. Kyros is not the abstraction of evil whatsoever, and I never claimed as such. He is in a morally grey area. Does he do evil stuff like raze cities or tolerate the Chorus? Yes, but he also greatly improves the QoL of his subjects, builds infrastructure, guarantees housing and food to citizens, etc.

He isn't any more evil than the people he subjugates. The point that the player doesn't even fully know whether he is male or female has nothing to do with Kyros being non-binary. At the worst, he "may" be a sorceress. But again, most evidence points to him being a man, and none to him being non-binary or queer. This is such a stupid thing to claim in the first place

He? Kyros is normally referred to as "they", I am also not the only one with the impression, including with Tunon.

I'm not sure what you tell you, I think your assessment is wrong. Possibly biased, by not wanting to see or wanting to normalize this ambiguity where it was never needed a few years before Tyranny.

[Nammu Archag]

You are definitely exaggerating. 3 or so instances of which most are with rebels insulting your position doesn't equate to nearly all. Kyros is not the abstraction of evil whatsoever, and I never claimed as such. He is in a morally grey area. Does he do evil stuff like raze cities or tolerate the Chorus? Yes, but he also greatly improves the QoL of his subjects, builds infrastructure, guarantees housing and food to citizens, etc.

He isn't any more evil than the people he subjugates. The point that the player doesn't even fully know whether he is male or female has nothing to do with Kyros being non-binary. At the worst, he "may" be a sorceress. But again, most evidence points to him being a man, and none to him being non-binary or queer. This is such a stupid thing to claim in the first place

He? Kyros is normally referred to as "they", I am also not the only one with the impression, including with Tunon.

I'm not sure what you tell you, I think your assessment is wrong. Possibly biased, by not wanting to see or wanting to normalize this ambiguity where it was never needed a few years before Tyranny.

Kyros is normally referred to as "Kyros" or "The Overlord". The game doesn't even use pronouns when describing him, only his titles, at least for the first few hours as that is what I just skimmed through. No pronouns =/= nonbinary. Maybe you are mistaking what a wiki says for what the actual game says? And to play the devil's advocate, even if he was a woman, why would it matter? He rules in large part due to his absurd magical ability, not strength or heritage or anything based on physical biology. Female queens and Empresses were not unheard of in antiquity and medieval times either, especially if they hypothetically had world-ending magic at their disposal. You are retroactively applying modern gender politics to something and so come to the same conclusions troons do about past works.

The fact that a character cannot be ambiguous without you automatically thinking of faggots points to liberal brainrot. As Rusty stated the game does have woke elements, especially in its DLC, but Kyros is hardly one of them.

[Lord of Riva]

Kyros is normally referred to as "Kyros" or The Overlord. The game doesn't even use pronouns when describing him, only his titles, at least for the first few hours as that is what I just skimmed through. No pronouns =/= non binary. Maybe you are mistaking what a wiki says for what the actual game says?

I have played through Tyranny twice and what I am saying seems to be accurate at least when it comes to Kyros when looking at what Elements posted.

[Anon]

Good job on the BG1 artist making the portraits look better than the models. I always thought Jaheiera's model would have been a cutie. Now I'm afraid to know what Branwen's model looked like.

What? They done Alora completely dirty

The funny thing about that is that the model is his wife.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was some sort of inside joke

[Emphyrio]

By the way, they Tali'd him

you're saying this as if prior to ME3's bioware laziness no one used someone's photo as a reference when creating a character portrait

Troika culture taking over Obsidian

room with a view was a great movie

[Nammu Archag]

Kyros is normally referred to as "Kyros" or The Overlord. The game doesn't even use pronouns when describing him, only his titles, at least for the first few hours as that is what I just skimmed through. No pronouns =/= non binary. Maybe you are mistaking what a wiki says for what the actual game says?

I have played through Tyranny twice and what I am saying seems to be accurate at least when it comes to Kyros when looking at what Elements posted.

Re-edited my original comment to be more concise but here is a longplay for reference

[rusty_shackleford]

Kyros is normally referred to as "Kyros" or The Overlord. The game doesn't even use pronouns when describing him, only his titles, at least for the first few hours as that is what I just skimmed through. No pronouns =/= non binary. Maybe you are mistaking what a wiki says for what the actual game says?

I have played through Tyranny twice and what I am saying seems to be accurate at least when it comes to Kyros when looking at what Elements posted.

Re-edited my original comment to be more concise but here is a longplay for reference

15 hours, how sad. Would have greatly preferred this being a real game rather than the pillows sequel.

[Lord of Riva]

Kyros is normally referred to as "Kyros" or The Overlord. The game doesn't even use pronouns when describing him, only his titles, at least for the first few hours as that is what I just skimmed through. No pronouns =/= non binary. Maybe you are mistaking what a wiki says for what the actual game says?

I have played through Tyranny twice and what I am saying seems to be accurate at least when it comes to Kyros when looking at what Elements posted.

Re-edited my original comment to be more concise but here is a longplay for reference

There is nothing modern about gender politics this stuff exists since John Moneys pedophile experiments at leas, Judith Lorber also coined Gender as a social construct. It basically boils down to the conception of feminism, which has adopted the premise that the differences between the sexes are social, not biological (to argue a different outcome is discrimination).

I have pointed out how Kyros is handled, the Sex of Kyros can be brought up with loads of characters, elemental is currently going through the game ( I am not willing to watch a longplay of 14 hours either) so he can either confirm it or deny it. The Sex/Gender of the character is very relevant to the game, exactly like it is with Tunon (And I argue Nerat) since there would be no purpose of mentioning the sex of these characters unless attention was to be brought upon the ambiguity of it in the first place. Nobody would have beaten an eyebrow if Kyros was a he or she, neither would they with Tunon but you can *talk* about this topic, even though it should be completely irrelevant for the story.

Some People really do not want to see it in the games it's featured in, always arguing that whatever it is, is certainly not Woke. But really how many games have you played before Tyranny where the sex of multiple character was a talking point and unclear on Purpose? Gaming before the wokesters had no time for this, it was irrelevant.