Advice about Modding in general

[Xenich]

Hey folks, this is a very general question, and may be in the wrong forum (wasn't sure exactly it fit right), so apologies.

Basically, long time gamer, and I have always considered getting into modding. I used to do mods many years ago with the Build Engine, some Doom stuff, and a little bit of the early Unreal engine releases (mildly) and I always wanted to get more into it, but never found the drive to do so until things became so political and tainted in the industry.

I have a wide range in my background of languages (C/C++, Java, some assembly, various early scripting/web languages), Networking knowledge around CCNP level, and various tools I have played with with various file manipulation and the like. I did work lightly in the technical field in my early years, but it has been a long while, so a lot of this would have to be brought up to speed to be functional, but its not all lost as I can still make out some things with code and the like and some of the more recent languages don't seem too cryptic to me when I browse them.

That said, it would be a learning process again.

So, off to the point. When D:OS came out, I was really interested in the development engine they released and always wanted to make an effort to use it to start creating all of my first edition AD&D modules with it, and I was hoping it would have taken off due to its power, but it seemed that it just didn't pick up. After seeing BG3, I thought maybe that would be a good engine to work with, but I am not sure how open that is to the modding
process.

I prefer the style of turn based play and feel in those games over doing something more action based as Skyrim and the like.

Anyway, the question is does anyone have a recommendation of game engine that might be best suited to such a focus? I know some my say just start from scratch with Unity or Unreal, but there is so much I need to catch up on, that I think at least initially would be a bit of a daunting task. I was hoping more for something where a lot of the assets were already present, but the engine allowed for some means to make some core adjustments to mechanics as well. That way, I could focus on my over all project goal and if I eventually ended up wanting to start from scratch, I would have refreshed and learned some more skills to make it at least easier to consider such an option.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Xenich

[orinEsque]

Hey folks, this is a very general question, and may be in the wrong forum (wasn't sure exactly it fit right), so apologies.

Basically, long time gamer, and I have always considered getting into modding. I used to do mods many years ago with the Build Engine, some Doom stuff, and a little bit of the early Unreal engine releases (mildly) and I always wanted to get more into it, but never found the drive to do so until things became so political and tainted in the industry.

I have a wide range in my background of languages (C/C++, Java, some assembly, various early scripting/web languages), Networking knowledge around CCNP level, and various tools I have played with with various file manipulation and the like. I did work lightly in the technical field in my early years, but it has been a long while, so a lot of this would have to be brought up to speed to be functional, but its not all lost as I can still make out some things with code and the like and some of the more recent languages don't seem too cryptic to me when I browse them.

That said, it would be a learning process again.

So, off to the point. When D:OS came out, I was really interested in the development engine they released and always wanted to make an effort to use it to start creating all of my first edition AD&D modules with it, and I was hoping it would have taken off due to its power, but it seemed that it just didn't pick up. After seeing BG3, I thought maybe that would be a good engine to work with, but I am not sure how open that is to the modding
process.

I prefer the style of turn based play and feel in those games over doing something more action based as Skyrim and the like.

Anyway, the question is does anyone have a recommendation of game engine that might be best suited to such a focus? I know some my say just start from scratch with Unity or Unreal, but there is so much I need to catch up on, that I think at least initially would be a bit of a daunting task. I was hoping more for something where a lot of the assets were already present, but the engine allowed for some means to make some core adjustments to mechanics as well. That way, I could focus on my over all project goal and if I eventually ended up wanting to start from scratch, I would have refreshed and learned some more skills to make it at least easier to consider such an option.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Xenich

You could Unpack Larian's Game files and have a look at what's available for you to play with. My modding did not go actually go beyond data mining, and Aesthetics/Audio changes, so I defnitely can't help you with anything related to the engine. However, there is a package called Engine in there... maybe it has something you can understand better than me .

Anyhow head on over to viewtopic.php?t=1617-bg3-modding-bg3-getting-started if you wish to explore what's within the BG3 Assets.

[Xenich]

Hey folks, this is a very general question, and may be in the wrong forum (wasn't sure exactly it fit right), so apologies.

Basically, long time gamer, and I have always considered getting into modding. I used to do mods many years ago with the Build Engine, some Doom stuff, and a little bit of the early Unreal engine releases (mildly) and I always wanted to get more into it, but never found the drive to do so until things became so political and tainted in the industry.

I have a wide range in my background of languages (C/C++, Java, some assembly, various early scripting/web languages), Networking knowledge around CCNP level, and various tools I have played with with various file manipulation and the like. I did work lightly in the technical field in my early years, but it has been a long while, so a lot of this would have to be brought up to speed to be functional, but its not all lost as I can still make out some things with code and the like and some of the more recent languages don't seem too cryptic to me when I browse them.

That said, it would be a learning process again.

So, off to the point. When D:OS came out, I was really interested in the development engine they released and always wanted to make an effort to use it to start creating all of my first edition AD&D modules with it, and I was hoping it would have taken off due to its power, but it seemed that it just didn't pick up. After seeing BG3, I thought maybe that would be a good engine to work with, but I am not sure how open that is to the modding
process.

I prefer the style of turn based play and feel in those games over doing something more action based as Skyrim and the like.

Anyway, the question is does anyone have a recommendation of game engine that might be best suited to such a focus? I know some my say just start from scratch with Unity or Unreal, but there is so much I need to catch up on, that I think at least initially would be a bit of a daunting task. I was hoping more for something where a lot of the assets were already present, but the engine allowed for some means to make some core adjustments to mechanics as well. That way, I could focus on my over all project goal and if I eventually ended up wanting to start from scratch, I would have refreshed and learned some more skills to make it at least easier to consider such an option.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Xenich

You could Unpack Larian's Game files and have a look at what's available for you to play with. My modding did not go actually go beyond data mining, and Aesthetics/Audio changes, so I defnitely can't help you with anything related to the engine. However, there is a package called Engine in there... maybe it has something you can understand better than me .

Anyhow head on over to viewtopic.php?t=1617-bg3-modding-bg3-getting-started if you wish to explore what's within the BG3 Assets.

I will start looking into it. If not, it might be better to work with the original D:OS engine as it was released as complete development tool and is extremely powerful for what I am aiming at. I think I even remember the devs talking about how it was open to complete adaptations of the mechanics through their scripting interface. I was hoping that they had released or were planning to release something similar to that for BG3.

Thanks again!

[orinEsque]

Hey folks, this is a very general question, and may be in the wrong forum (wasn't sure exactly it fit right), so apologies.

Basically, long time gamer, and I have always considered getting into modding. I used to do mods many years ago with the Build Engine, some Doom stuff, and a little bit of the early Unreal engine releases (mildly) and I always wanted to get more into it, but never found the drive to do so until things became so political and tainted in the industry.

I have a wide range in my background of languages (C/C++, Java, some assembly, various early scripting/web languages), Networking knowledge around CCNP level, and various tools I have played with with various file manipulation and the like. I did work lightly in the technical field in my early years, but it has been a long while, so a lot of this would have to be brought up to speed to be functional, but its not all lost as I can still make out some things with code and the like and some of the more recent languages don't seem too cryptic to me when I browse them.

That said, it would be a learning process again.

So, off to the point. When D:OS came out, I was really interested in the development engine they released and always wanted to make an effort to use it to start creating all of my first edition AD&D modules with it, and I was hoping it would have taken off due to its power, but it seemed that it just didn't pick up. After seeing BG3, I thought maybe that would be a good engine to work with, but I am not sure how open that is to the modding
process.

I prefer the style of turn based play and feel in those games over doing something more action based as Skyrim and the like.

Anyway, the question is does anyone have a recommendation of game engine that might be best suited to such a focus? I know some my say just start from scratch with Unity or Unreal, but there is so much I need to catch up on, that I think at least initially would be a bit of a daunting task. I was hoping more for something where a lot of the assets were already present, but the engine allowed for some means to make some core adjustments to mechanics as well. That way, I could focus on my over all project goal and if I eventually ended up wanting to start from scratch, I would have refreshed and learned some more skills to make it at least easier to consider such an option.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Xenich

You could Unpack Larian's Game files and have a look at what's available for you to play with. My modding did not go actually go beyond data mining, and Aesthetics/Audio changes, so I defnitely can't help you with anything related to the engine. However, there is a package called Engine in there... maybe it has something you can understand better than me .

Anyhow head on over to viewtopic.php?t=1617-bg3-modding-bg3-getting-started if you wish to explore what's within the BG3 Assets.

I will start looking into it. If not, it might be better to work with the original D:OS engine as it was released as complete development tool and is extremely powerful for what I am aiming at. I think I even remember the devs talking about how it was open to complete adaptations of the mechanics through their scripting interface. I was hoping that they had released or were planning to release something similar to that for BG3.

Thanks again!

ScriptExtender addon lets you use the OSIRIS script that Larian has, but it always breaks after every BG3 patch, so probably better to use DO:S engine.

[Xenich]

You could Unpack Larian's Game files and have a look at what's available for you to play with. My modding did not go actually go beyond data mining, and Aesthetics/Audio changes, so I defnitely can't help you with anything related to the engine. However, there is a package called Engine in there... maybe it has something you can understand better than me .

Anyhow head on over to viewtopic.php?t=1617-bg3-modding-bg3-getting-started if you wish to explore what's within the BG3 Assets.

I will start looking into it. If not, it might be better to work with the original D:OS engine as it was released as complete development tool and is extremely powerful for what I am aiming at. I think I even remember the devs talking about how it was open to complete adaptations of the mechanics through their scripting interface. I was hoping that they had released or were planning to release something similar to that for BG3.

Thanks again!

ScriptExtender addon lets you use the OSIRIS script that Larian has, but it always breaks after every BG3 patch, so probably better to use DO:S engine.

That's my concern as well.

[maidenhaver]

You should always try making your own game instead of modding.

[Xenich]

You should always try making your own game instead of modding.

Sure, if you are tying to design a game from the ground up and you have the desire to work from such a blank slate, but I think it makes much more sense to first start with an example that has the tools, structure and organization (such as the divinity engine has), and first use that as a template to work from. This helps to give an example of the basic core structure of the systems and mechanics of their design to work from.

So, in my case, all of that knowledge I would gather from using that engine to create a simple module would help me to better organize what it is I would actually need to do in order to create something from scratch (as I have the actual game as a template to compare to) and if that really had any real benefit to my overall goal.

Like I said, I only really had interest in creating the first edition AD&D modules and from what I have researched, the Divinity Engine allows me to use either existing assets or import my own. It also allows me to edit existing game mechanics, or implement my own as I see fit. It is a very powerful engine from what I have seen. So at that point, its a good starting point and if the engine does provide me all the flexibility I am looking for, to the result that I ultimately seek, it's all I really want anyway.

I am not looking to go into the business of game making, I just want to create something that I would find very interesting and its always been a desire for me to recreate those modules.

Now if at some point I find that I would like to go further, everything I have learned from this project will certainly help me if I decided to work at creating my own engine/systems as I would then have a basic idea of what I at least needed to achieve my goals.

Point is, baby steps... You don't decide to go into gunsmithing if you haven't used and modified existing ones. That's the cart before the horse and while it has been a while, I am well aware of the dangers of a development project succumbing to design paralysis and starting from scratch is a much more likely pit trap than that of what I am looking at.

[Xenich]

Hmm, looks like the Divinity Engines aren't a good choice for what I am after. May be some unfounded chatter, and I won't know until I dig a bit deeper, but it appears while the engine appears like its an IDE with powerful tools, a lot of of areas are hard coded and would require extensive 3rd party work around. So, maidenhaver may be correct in the position of starting from scratch (at least from the standpoint of wanting to completely revamp the combat mechanics).

I will have to keep digging. I did pick up some info on Unreal and Unity, and since I already have some past knowledge of C++, it might be better. Also, I like the whole blueprint thing Unreal has, its an interesting feature.

That said, I am not an artist, but I do have enough of an eye to adapt existing content and retain its continuity with my past projects years ago messing with animating Flash (which is why I was wanting to work with an existing asset base as it is already implemented and would give me a nice example of structure). The same is with the base combat systems, as I really don't want to build entire engines from scratch.

Was hoping for more of an asset replacement, engine mechanic tweaks or replacements than a complete design from the ground up for a first project. Its a difficult place for me to be as on one side I I want the ease of an existing structure to work with, but on the other I am OCD about compromise on a given implementation I am shooting for. While it is possible to shore that up with some clever 3rd party adapations to the engine, I am not sure the time spent in that would be better spent in designing core engines.

I guess It makes more sense to start with much smaller projects (ie game mechanics demos, rules systems, etc...) and then slowly build them together. I guess I could use some of the previous works out there as guides to the various features that I like and attempt to recreate them in my own demos. Regardless, It is not going to be as simple as I initially was hoping for.

That's ok, compartmentalizing the focus will allow me to better learn various areas of development on the way, but this project is going to be a long process.

One thing about the art I wanted to use is my childhood experiences of the early AD&D art. I remember picking up the red box D&D when it released at the hobby store and being fascinated by it and I continued to follow it (especially the AD&D stuff by David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Tom Wham, Jean Wells as well as later artists of that era). I always wanted to create a world with 3d representations of that art style in a game similar to D:OS/BG3, still retaining its original feel and look, though obviously this would be better suited for a 2D dungeon crawler and might be far easier to implement, but its just not what I have envisioned).

Oh well, this could be just wishful musings, it all depends on if I get the "Bug" and that is what I am currently trying to get myself to catch.