Dominions 6

For discussing tactical and strategy games. What's the difference between tactics and strategy anyways?
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Because you're cold-blooded and someone just froze the frame on you.

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Irenaeus
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Post by Irenaeus »

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Good game bros, it was fun while it lasted.
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Post by Ratcatcher »

I've sent you a short message in game. in case you end up not opening the next turn tell me and I will repeat via pm. You've been an honorable foe!
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Emphyrio wrote: January 25th, 2024, 23:03
Is this something you've actually done? I don't see how the rule change makes that possible. How can a size 5 horse charge through a square of five size 2 midgets?
Was going through the thread again because bored waiting for a student and I noticed this which I previously missed. Yes, there's a new mechanic called displacement or something like that. As I understand it, as long as there is still some space in a tile, a larger friendly unit with more speed is able to enter said tile even if by doing so it needs to displace one (or more?) model. This is not exactly immediately noticeable in game if you use box or line formations but you can easily see it working with sparse lines, I used it to test cavalry charges going through a retreating line of skirmishers.

Problem is, to do that you need one or more 80+ leadership commanders, and such fancy little tactics are most impacftul during expansion. In practice, I rarely have the necessary stats. Take the current Ragha game, I have hvy cav and I'm using archers as skirmishers, since all my flying commanders are ldrs 75 tho, I never actually use it because of logistics. Having 18 map move > fancy combat maneuvers.

Also, it more or less ceases working once lines have clashed, I found no reference to it but I'm almost 100% certain a unit that's already in melee won't be displaced.
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Post by Emphyrio »

@Irenaeus I've wanted to play LA Pythium in mp for a long time. They are often considered one of the shittiest nations, but my theory was that all the buffs they've gotten over the years should make them competitive. Can you talk about how the game went for you, what worked and didn't work and why you think you lost?
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Post by Decline »

I see a gigantic army of Pythium on my border and you are talking about it in the past.

It is far from over.
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Post by Irenaeus »

Emphyrio wrote: February 7th, 2024, 00:07
@Irenaeus I've wanted to play LA Pythium in mp for a long time. They are often considered one of the shittiest nations, but my theory was that all the buffs they've gotten over the years should make them competitive. Can you talk about how the game went for you, what worked and didn't work and why you think you lost?
Emphy, you should definitively try LA Pythium on MP if you practice enough, it's not a bad nation at all - maybe by late game. I don't know if they were considered a shitty nation, but they should be good enough for at least the early game. The game went good for me until the war with Ragha. It's mainly because I have little experience with mp, and even sp, and so I wasn't going to make an efficient build, and I went more inclined to scales troops than a good bless or useful Pretender (in fact I did both for flavor).
Since the map is so small, scales doesnt scale :eyebrows: , and the time needed for old Foul Vapours trap is too long I thought (how useful is that in dom6 anyway). So my plant with Pythium was good armies for expansion and early wars. However, Ragha's army by the time I attacked him were simply better (lots of flying chaf, heavy cav, elephants) and Ratcatcher had the good mages for support, so despite I inflicting some damage, the battles were pretty one sided.
Hope that helped, and I continue finding Pythium good, it's just the difference in skill between a more seasoned player who has the build and strats more organized versus a player who is casual and is playing for fun, doesn't mind losing that much.
Ratcatcher, anything to add to this from your perspective?
I plan to learn and make better builds and strats for many nations for the next games, as my time allows it!
Last edited by Irenaeus on February 7th, 2024, 11:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Irenaeus wrote: February 7th, 2024, 11:36
Ratcatcher, anything to add to this from your perspective?
I never actualy played LA Pythium but MA Pythium is one of my fav nations. In both eras you have excellent defensive scale troops that can hold the line for a long time and expand pretty well, I haven't looked at their LA mages in detail but they still heavily favor communions, which is good. Access to gladiators makes them very hard to rush directly in the beginning. You can do some fun stuff with hydras. Not a powerhouse but I don't consider them shitty.

MA ofc has theurg communicants which are simply too quirky and good to pass. But I don't think LA falls much behind, in terms of potential. It definitely requires finesse tho.


Generally speaking, I value nations for how fun they are to play and how different they feel. I like quirky and versatile nations more than conventionally powerful ones.
Irenaeus wrote: February 7th, 2024, 11:36
the time needed for old Foul Vapours trap is too long
it's why I went shock res instead of poison res. I figured in such a small game and with it being postponed and harder to cast, the game would be decided before it could become relevant.
Irenaeus wrote: February 7th, 2024, 11:36
I plan to learn and make better builds and strats for many nations for the next games, as my time allows it!
We should do like @Decline suggested and organize a disciples game vs AI, that way we can all give each other pointers. I have couple suggestions I wanted to give you but ofc I cannot rly do so while we're at war. Especially not now that treacherous Phlegra decided to make a mess in my back yard. It was all nice and tidy just a turn before.

I also wanted to add, 4 players games degenerate in a single all out world war pretty soon, it's in their nature. Normally, I'd be much more diplomatic in my approach, I assure you. I just wanted dat swamp :headbang:
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Post by Emphyrio »

Irenaeus wrote: February 7th, 2024, 11:36
Emphy, you should definitively try LA Pythium on MP if you practice enough, it's not a bad nation at all - maybe by late game. I don't know if they were considered a shitty nation, but they should be good enough for at least the early game. The game went good for me until the war with Ragha. It's mainly because I have little experience with mp, and even sp, and so I wasn't going to make an efficient build, and I went more inclined to scales troops than a good bless or useful Pretender (in fact I did both for flavor).
Since the map is so small, scales doesnt scale :eyebrows: , and the time needed for old Foul Vapours trap is too long I thought (how useful is that in dom6 anyway). So my plant with Pythium was good armies for expansion and early wars. However, Ragha's army by the time I attacked him were simply better (lots of flying chaf, heavy cav, elephants) and Ratcatcher had the good mages for support, so despite I inflicting some damage, the battles were pretty one sided.
Hope that helped, and I continue finding Pythium good, it's just the difference in skill between a more seasoned player who has the build and strats more organized versus a player who is casual and is playing for fun, doesn't mind losing that much.
Ratcatcher, anything to add to this from your perspective?
I plan to learn and make better builds and strats for many nations for the next games, as my time allows it!
Their Renata and Renatus used to have really shitty paths (something like W1D1 with no random) and they didn't have the heliodromus buff spell or the Lars summon so their out-of-cap mages were absolutely awful. But they have good troops with very high map move, and 1 commander point foreign rec mages. I think that Pythium could put up a lab on turn 3 and start recruiting tons of Mystes researchers, which would be great with magic scales and an inspiring researcher tendie. In Dom 5 I dreamed up a Neter of the Moon with max magic and ethereal bless (or you can do farcaster and magic pen).

Now, I'm not sure what to do with all that research though. FV is probably not worth it, I think you're right. They have wide and shallow path access and the spells they can use are scattered all over the place. Maybe go deep conj? Your site searching should be really good so you can get tons of gems, summon tons of shit on all different paths and together with your good troops maybe just totally overwhelm an enemy.

Foul Vapors takes you deep into Ench, and there are some strong spells there but they're generally too high of paths for your mages to cast without communions. I think ench is skippable, except Ench 2 for personal regen which will help communion slaves.

There's a bunch of stuff in Evo that could be good. Fire Blast for leos on the front line, web, breathe of the dragon, thunderstrike, stellar cascades and astral geyser. I think it all got buffed in dom 6.

Nothing in thaum looks useful except soul slay.

I've always tended not to make Construction a priority and now with the huge research nerf I'm gonna make it less of one. The boosters are too high now at 7. You probably want Fire in a Jar for your leos and helios. Or you can give leos doom glaives to cut holes in the front lines. Leos are foreign rec, pretty cheap at 110, good stats and armor.

For lategame, idk... the new Blood Poison and Venomous Death together with Frozen Heart and Incinerate, all in Alt, give you pretty wide and good protection against SCs, I think. And army wipe spells are supposed to be weaker. I do not really have much experience in "lategame" as it's usually described. I've seen one streamer describe Army of Gold as a "late midgame" spell, which sounds insane to me that level 9 is midgame. The only time I've ever seen a level 9 spells cast in mp was in a game with easy research speed. Stories I hear about doing things like summoning 200 storm demons one at a time or master enslaving everything or wish spamming are totally alien to me.

I think many people are scared of summoning heretics, but it's not a big deal for your own dominion if you keep the guys out of your forts and it can absolutely wreck enemy dominion. Heresy is much more effective at removing enemy dominion than preaching is.
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Welp, that was well played Iren, wasn't really expecting to lose that siege and I got really cocky. Should have moved away last turn.

Mmh. fixing this will require some time.
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Post by Decline »

Ratcatcher wrote: February 7th, 2024, 12:37
4 players games degenerate
Unfortunately that is all we have available on CooomplainHQ it seems.

Regarding the disciples compstomp vs AI, that game is open, just waiting for pretenders (and @Kalarion).
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Post by Kalarion »

I need to wait for some additional money before I can purchase it. Give me one more week.
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Post by Irenaeus »

LOOOOOL I can't believe I won the battle.... And you had no retreat, so you lost your whole army and mages! What a save!

The mighty forces before the battle, on the snowy winter plains of Pythium province itself:

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Margarida, the Embracer, overseeing the faithful 16 mages left. A ragtag team composed of remnants of legions fallen + some gladiators, summoned chaff of various types (longdead, manikins, vine men, giant spiders, killer mantises lol), some sacred hydras, and all the glorious serpent cataphracts.

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Seven Magi, amazing heavy cavalry with some lancer catchers in front, hundreds of winged archers+light inf, half a dozeb etherial elephants (hard to kill without magic weapons).
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Yes it was really close. Hp rout, mainly due to the elephants getting almost no value, because they got stuck in the middle of it after suffering from the slowing effect of your bless. I had also diverted one too many mages towards the other front, probably.

Just sayin' ofc. I should definitely have taken more of the capring and renounce the siege. Denying one turn of recruit and removing all your PD was already enough of a victory but I calculated if I could win I could also crack your fortress in 2 turns tops and then proceed towards Phlegra. A pricey mistake that will probably cost me the game. Such is Dominions tho and such is fun!, I regret (almost) nothing and blame wymminz.
Decline wrote: February 7th, 2024, 23:43
Regarding the disciples compstomp vs AI, that game is open
I hardly have time to play this single game here. Believe it or not, I already had to wake up early twice to do so. Unfortunately until school is in full regime, I won't be joining more than one game at a time. I hate when people have to wait on me and I hate playing Dominions sloppily.
Last edited by Ratcatcher on February 8th, 2024, 03:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Decline »

This game turns out to be much tighter than previously thought.

The war in the north C'Tis vs Phlegra was more of a mind game because none of us believed we could actually defeat the other.
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Post by Emphyrio »

Decline wrote: February 8th, 2024, 23:26
This game turns out to be much tighter than previously thought.

The war in the north C'Tis vs Phlegra was more of a mind game because none of us believed we could actually defeat the other.
my war with you was ackshually a ruse so that I could move my armies into position to attack ragha when the rivers froze, without him suspecting. It would have been nice if you'd have put up less of a fight and I could have gotten some free land, but no biggie.
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Post by Irenaeus »

I'm having a hard time figuring out who's winning (it's not me).
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Emphyrio wrote: February 8th, 2024, 23:39
without him suspecting
But I did suspect my fren. Point is, he who defends everything defends nothing. I saw your armies (I think there's liek, 4 provinces in the whole game where I have no scouts) and decided where I could realistically stop you, which I did last turn. The most important thing for me is you couldn't shut down more than 1 out of 3 of my fortresses. Now, ofc, if no one else gets to you and Ragha is all that's left between you and victory, well...
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Post by Emphyrio »

Irenaeus wrote: February 8th, 2024, 23:57
I'm having a hard time figuring out who's winning (it's not me).
on a map this small things could change massively in a couple turns. I think ctis will end up winning though, by thrones.
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Post by Decline »

Patch 6.0.5 is out
This update gives better casualty reports from global enchantments, now reporting the number of commanders killed as well as the names of up to three of the most important ones. A crash bug that could affect Windows users trying to resize the game's window has also been squashed. In addition to many more bug fixes this version also introduces a pair of new commanders for early age T'ien Ch'i and a few new commands for modders.

General
New sword master commanders for EA T'ien Ch'i
Windows version could sometimes crash on window resize or alt-tab
Global enchantments now gives improved information on which commanders died from them
Fixes for local network games + mods. More fixes needed.
Linux now also has a popup error message box if the game should crash
Enable Rivers button activated map selection, fixed
Fix for confused units striking at location too far away
Exiting quick started lobby game now returns to network menu
Getting awe from leadership items more difficult, limit 100 -> 200
Clockworks never fatigue over 150 automatically
Can no longer see used resources from other players' forts
Cold resistance buff gave +5 extra resistance
Magic site population bonus printed in population growth breakdown
Disabled become AI didn't work in network lobby
Ranged weapon with fatigue cost no longer adds unit's encumbrance
Spell AI could cast nightsight buffs on units with perfect darkvision, fixed
Fix for supplies shown incorrectly on 't' screen
Improved main map responsiveness for huge games
Power of Death bonuses shown in stats
Power of Death didn't give MR, fixed
Never healing wound and similar HP reductions no longer reduce HP from armor
Immobiles can no longer be buffed to fly
Could appoint new prophet while he was resurrecting (immortality), fixed
Reduced CPU usage in research screen
No global enchantment effects on outer planes
Fixes for coastal recruitment that could incorrectly be done outside forts too
Fixes for missing terrain requirement popups in nation info
The void is now magic scale 5 (was 3)
Muspelheim can now also get longdead giants
Improved errors from failed lobby game creation
Changes to Demon Lords magic paths (intended glamour changes were missing)
Some Jomonese summons got glamour fixes
Event hero Fadmarghast got a Storm Armor that gives storm immunity to mount
God Spider is now stealthy
Stat, event and typo fixes


Modding
New event commands: #forcegold, #forceexactgold, #force1d3vis...
Print some more non-standard terrain combinations in province info
Mod parser now converts all tabs to spaces
Bless modding: #name didn't work
Nation modding: #coastfortrec, #coastfortcom didn't work
#worldshape didn't work
First thing I noticed this turn is that I successfully assassinated a commander in a tavern only for the commander to live and my assassin to die in the battle report. :rip:
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Yeah, I'm missing a number of random commanders. Definitely all the mages I had forging/casting just disappeared. Thx game. This is precisely what I needed, game. :mad:
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Post by Emphyrio »

Ratcatcher wrote: February 9th, 2024, 18:41
Yeah, I'm missing a number of random commanders. Definitely all the mages I had forging/casting just disappeared. Thx game. This is precisely what I needed, game. :mad:
Do you still see them counted for upkeep?
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Sorry to keep you waiting but I have some issues with work. As soon as I have time to look at my turn again I will also check if the missing commanders and mages are still accounted into my upkeep.

No need for an extension, just sayin'

Edit: no, I have no extra commanders in my upkeep. Just what I actually have in game
Last edited by Ratcatcher on February 10th, 2024, 15:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Sorry for the double post but, since I have a pretty busy week end and I see everyone is coming for me, I'm contemplating going AI. It's actually something I've never done before but I hardly have production or anything left to stop the three armies coming for my lands.

If you want I'll keep giving orders, don't get me wrong! This is just to avoid you having to wait for me for whatever little effect my actions can have in game at this point. Thoughts?
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Post by Emphyrio »

@Ratcatcher unless some disaster befell you last turn I don't think your situation is so hopeless.

@Decline my secretary has decided that I'm scheduled to leave town in a few hours and won't be home until tomorrow night. Unless I can get the turn in before I leave, I'll need a 12 hour extendo... thanks
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Emphyrio wrote: February 10th, 2024, 15:55
unless some disaster befell you last turn I don't think your situation is so hopeless.
I dunno how you evaluate 'hopeless'. Pythium removed basically all production from my secondary fort, I only needed a few good troops to stop an army of militia but it literally shut it down, I recruited half an elephant from there instead of three. The main fortress is down to 1 capring province, I can barely produce 15 flyers or 7 or so light troops. I'm down to one (1) mage actually able to summon something. I'm also the smallest nation by far, at this point.
It's also pretty clear Iren is coming for my lands too. Also, remember this:
Ratcatcher wrote: February 9th, 2024, 18:41
I'm missing a number of random commanders. Definitely all the mages I had forging/casting just disappeared.
They went whoknowswhere, the summon went whoknowswhere, the gem used for summons... you get the gist. Lol.

I tried diplomacy ofc but it didn't work. From my point of view I exhausted all possible avenues, it's also about time one of the nations got outed from the game, I'm fine being the first, especially against all odds I have little qualms.
If what you want is for me to script some climatic last stand for the first that actually manages to siege Ragha I can certainly do that.
Last edited by Ratcatcher on February 10th, 2024, 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Decline »

Ratcatcher wrote: February 10th, 2024, 16:14
They went whoknowswhere, the summon went whoknowswhere, the gem used for summons... you get the gist. Lol.
Yeah that definitely seems to be related to the recent patch. Bummer. That is what you get when playing Dominions in Early Age (after release).

We can also just start the RPGHQ2 if we get one more (4).

Also I extended the turn to host in 32h from now.
Last edited by Decline on February 10th, 2024, 20:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Emphyrio »

I changed my mind about playing pyrene in rpghq2, gonna switch out to somebody else
Last edited by Emphyrio on February 11th, 2024, 01:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Emphyrio »

Welp @Ratcatcher, I guess now it is really hopeless. My rough math is that you have close to zero income now after upkeep. If I'd waited a couple more turns before killing all your cavalry you'd probably be having desertions now. Go ahead and go AI. I'm sorry that your commanders bugging out spoiled your plans.
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Emphyrio wrote: February 13th, 2024, 04:02
My rough math is that you have close to zero income now after upkeep. If I'd waited a couple more turns before killing all your cavalry you'd probably be having desertions now.
That's not the issue, I can distill gold and keep things going. The worst is actually the loss of production and:
Emphyrio wrote: February 13th, 2024, 04:02
commanders bugging out
But not because of what you may think. Losing mages and such hurts af but the game also removed every 80+ ldr commander I had. I initially didin't notice because I was crying over the loss of wizardry-ing but lacking the ability to put flyers in lines is fuckhuge. It more or less killed what strategy I could still use and my motivation to do smth fun! with my remaining troops.

Sorry if this was disappointing for you men. I hope the rest of the game is fun and that I at least provided entertainment, while I lasted. I certainly had fun myself!
Last edited by Ratcatcher on February 13th, 2024, 06:28, edited 1 time in total.
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