What is your opinion on marcionism?

[rusty_shackleford]

Marcionite, any member of a gnostic sect that flourished in the 2nd century CE. The name derives from Marcion of Pontus (an ancient district in northeastern Anatolia), who, sometime after his arrival in Rome, fell under the influence of Cerdo, a gnostic Christian, and went on to expand upon his theology. Cerdo’s stormy relations with the church of Rome were the consequence of his belief that the God of the Old Testament could be distinguished from the God of the New Testament—the one embodying justice, the other goodness. For accepting, developing, and propagating such ideas, Marcion was expelled from the church in 144 as a heretic, but the movement he headed became both widespread and powerful.

The basis of Marcionite theology was that there were two cosmic gods. A vain and angry creator god who demanded and ruthlessly exacted justice had created the material world of which humanity, body and soul, was a part—a striking departure from the usual gnostic thesis that only the human body is part of creation, that the soul is a spark from the true but unknown superior God, and that the world creator is a demonic power. The other god, according to Marcion, was completely ineffable and bore no intrinsic relation to the created universe at all. Out of sheer goodness, he had sent his son Jesus Christ to save humankind from the material world and bring about a new home. One of Marcion’s favourite texts with respect to Christ’s mission was the Letter of Paul to the Galatians 3:13: “Christ redeemed us.” Christ’s sacrifice was not in any sense a vicarious atonement for human sin but rather a legalistic act that canceled the claim of the creator God upon humanity. In contrast to the typical gnostic claim to a special revelatory gnōsis, Marcion and his followers emphasized faith in the effect of Christ’s act. They practiced stern asceticism to restrict contact with the creator’s world while looking forward to eventual salvation in the realm of the extra-worldly God. They admitted women to the priesthood and bishopric.

Marcion is perhaps best known for his treatment of Scripture. Though he rejected the Old Testament as the work of the creator God, he did not deny its efficacy for those who did not believe in Christ. He rejected attempts to harmonize Jewish biblical traditions with Christian ones as impossible. He accepted as authentic all of the Pauline Letters and the Gospel According to Luke (after he had expurgated them of Judaizing elements). His treatment of Christian literature was significant because it forced the early church to fix an approved canon of theologically acceptable texts out of the mass of available but unorganized material.

The Marcionites were considered the most dangerous of the gnostics by the established church. When St. Polycarp met Marcion at Rome, he is said to have identified Marcion as “the firstborn of Satan.” A number of popes, including St. Pius I and St. Anicetus, were involved in fighting the spread of the Marcionite movement.

[maidenhaver]

I can't say, but stormy relations with Rome are a good sign. Depends on my reading list, I guess.

My issue with gnosticism is only its hatred of the body and all things human.

[Acrux]

It's heresy.


But on a personal level, my mind/imagination are drawn to dualism. I think that Marcionism, Zoroastrianism, and so on are really interesting.

[Tweed]

It's heresy.

[Decline]

Gnostics, hang them all.

[WhiteShark]

It's heresy. The Old Testament and the New Testament are so inextricably linked it's laughable to suggest that they depict two different gods.

[Humbaba]

Not Islam, so it's gay.



-Humbaba

[Atlantico]

Marcionite, any member of a gnostic sect that flourished in the 2nd century CE.

Using CE in an article is subversive and faggy, using it in an article about Christians (no matter how heretical) is next level retarded.

Marcionites were heretics, Encyclopedia Britannica editors are massive faggots.

[Segata]

Sometimes I think Marcion had a point

[SpellSword]

... The basis of Marcionite theology was that there were two cosmic gods...

[Phos]

They admitted women to the priesthood and bishopric.

lol

[maidenhaver]

Glad I never got around to gnosticism.

[Slavic Sorcerer]

It has right to exist, as long it's not bothering me like FUCKING JEHOVA'S WITNESSES DO holy fuck
I've tried to be polite, then cold and demanding, then I said I'm a Satanist. I'm sure they will fucking come back around Christmas LIKE WASTES OF MOTHER'S LOVE THEY ARE

Anyway, marcionism sounds like a convoluted anime fanfic
Can't exactly join the crowd to scream "heresy" cause I'm an apostate of the Catholic Church : V
Similarly to Arcx, I'm drawn to dualism on a personal level as well. I treat religions like that as a fun read

I reject the notion Old and New Testaments were written by different gods
It would make no sense as the whole text

Besides,

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

By what Jesus goes on to say in Matthew, I understand that he gets to the heart of the matter God addresses through the moral law of the Old Testament and calls his followers to live by this standard.

I don't think Jesus being the emissary of the "creator god" would say the text written by the "other god" still applies.

[rusty_shackleford]

The Oxford dictionary of the Christian Church states they were not Gnostics

[rusty_shackleford]

They admitted women to the priesthood and bishopric.

Stopped reading after this sentence and made a mental note to never waste my time again reading texts on marcionism and gnosticism.

Don't know how truthful that statement is because everything about them was destroyed. Rather hate those periods of history — and we're returning to it again.

[Acrux]

I don't see how it can't be gnostic when he identifies Jehova in the OT with the demiurge and that Christ in the NT is trying to overthrow him. That's the core tenet of gnosticism.


But, I agree with your point about it being hard to know or argue against whatever his real teaching was. Origen and Arius have the same problem of everything written about them being framed by their opponents.

[maidenhaver]

He's just teaching gnosticism with an extra step.

[rusty_shackleford]

Gnosticism is closely related to mysticism, I see nothing of the such in Marcionism.

[maidenhaver]

Belief there's an evil god. Did good god reveal this? Sounds mystical. He goes further to argue that all creation is evil, and the soul is created too, so he's gnostic with another step.

[rusty_shackleford]

Belief there's an evil god. Did good god reveal this? Sounds mystical. He goes further to argue that all creation is evil, and the soul is created too, so he's gnostic with another step.

We don't know if he explicitly said the OT god is evil or not tho, just that (presumably) he's a god of law and wrath compared to the NT god of compassion and love.

[Emphyrio]

Marcionite, any member of a gnostic sect that flourished in the 2nd century CE.

Using CE in an article is subversive and faggy, using it in an article about Christians (no matter how heretical) is next level retarded.

CE = Christian Era

BCE = Before Christian Era