Perfect 4X game

[Arbiter]

What features would you like to see in a perfect 4X game?

[Ratcatcher]

Question is a bit too wide, since 4Xs are very varied in scope, setting and objectives. Personally, I'm a sucker for exploration and unit customization, in a 4X. I love and used to play a lot the old Fall from Heaven mod for Civ IV and one of the aspects I liked the most is the fact wild and unowned territory remains present very well into the mid to late game.

Exploring in search of rare resources and mana nodes or simply entering ruins. Gethering magic items and watching your veteran units become OP, after gaining loads of promotions.

[Dead]

Specifically on Dominions 5, which is the only recently released 4X that I liked, I want to be able to delegate individual or groups of provinces, so that I don't need to micromanage every turn. I want to script delegations like I can script battles.

[Acrux]

The Ashes of Erebus mod-mod of Civ4 Fall From Heaven is the perfect 4x game. Unfortunately the latest svn version has a terrible bug (crash on game start way too often) but the modder is investigating it and rebuilding from older versions.

[JarlFrank]

Micromanagement for your capital, but macromanagement for your wider empire so it doesn't devolve into microing 20 cities in the lategame.
Complex resource economy and population management that makes expanding and controlling fertile and resource rich regions actually important.

And most important for my own personal tastes: a tactical combat layer, either real time like Total War (my preferred choice) or turn based like Age of Wonders etc. Warfare that only consists of auto-calculated stack vs stack battles is utterly boring, while Civ5's way of one unit per tile tactical maneuvering on the world map is too cumbersome.

[Galdred]

Micromanagement for your capital, but macromanagement for your wider empire so it doesn't devolve into microing 20 cities in the lategame.
Complex resource economy and population management that makes expanding and controlling fertile and resource rich regions actually important.

And most important for my own personal tastes: a tactical combat layer, either real time like Total War (my preferred choice) or turn based like Age of Wonders etc. Warfare that only consists of auto-calculated stack vs stack battles is utterly boring, while Civ5's way of one unit per tile tactical maneuvering on the world map is too cumbersome.

I think it would be the best way to go indeed. Or micromanage macro decisions (edicts, research, military doctrine, budget), but abstract local ones.
1 UPT may work (it works well in Gladius and Warlock), but only if the economic system of the game makes it impossible to flood the whole board with units.

For me, the games that come closest is Master of Orion 1. It has limited planet micro (unlike its younger brother), and still has tactical combat. That said, I much prefer the tactical combat of the 2nd one, as the stacking of all ships of the same class in MOO1 is a bit too gamey.

[asf]

I like micromanagement if it is done right. The problem with many games is that you end up having to micromanage stuff that would otherwise be easily automated. That is usually a fault of terrible UI or the game forcing you do to a lot of stuff that would be trivial for an AI. In other cases they have AI to do the stuff, but it sucks so much at simple things you end up having to do it yourself.

Approaches like TTD or that commie game where you set up the AI then forget about it are interesting also. Factorio and clones have similar ideas, though setting up the automation is the game itself in these cases. I suppose a case could be made in these lines for all games where you set up things then they mostly run themselves, with you needing to intervene only occasionally.

As for the topic, I prefer 4x games where things are more asymmetric for the player, ie. AI isn't your 'equal' and tries to fight you on equal footing. There are games I like which implement equal footing, like moo and civs, but my ideal 4x would have you focusing on yourself, with challenges being presented more asymmetrically, eg. Alien Legacy. Good 4x need decent exploration and interesting research trees. Combat is a plus to me in these genres. In fact, I would argue that exploration and that sense of discovery is what would really make a great 4x.

[Galdred]

I like micromanagement if it is done right. The problem with many games is that you end up having to micromanage stuff that would otherwise be easily automated. That is usually a fault of terrible UI or the game forcing you do to a lot of stuff that would be trivial for an AI. In other cases they have AI to do the stuff, but it sucks so much at simple things you end up having to do it yourself.

That is a good point. Micromanagement usually ends up being pretty repetitive, but that doesn't mean it could be easily automated. Dominions 5 has a lot of micro hell through UI, but a lot of the battle micro would remain even with a proper UI. The main issue is the "explosion" of battles/turn late game, compared to the early game. The issue is that the ratio of micro/macro is usually much higher late game than early game.

As for the topic, I prefer 4x games where things are more asymmetric for the player, ie. AI isn't your 'equal' and tries to fight you on equal footing. There are games I like which implement equal footing, like moo and civs, but my ideal 4x would have you focusing on yourself, with challenges being presented more asymmetrically, eg. Alien Legacy. Good 4x need decent exploration and interesting research trees. Combat is a plus to me in these genres. In fact, I would argue that exploration and that sense of discovery is what would really make a great 4x.

Yes! I wish more 4X were asymetric. Does Alien Legacy hold out today? I remember I wanted to play it when it got out, but then, I forgot about it and we are now almost 30 years later...

[asf]

Alien Legacy holds just fine, but I still play a lot of 30+ years old games, so take that with a grain of salt. Ironically, it has some of micromanagement that could be easily automated, particularly grabbing research stuff with the ship, but the exploration is just pretty good in that game.

[Ratcatcher]

Yes! I wish more 4X were asymetric.

Add me to the list of wishful thinkers. One of my wet dreams is a 'PVE' 4X. That is, not necessarily devoid of multiple concurrent playable factions but where the emphasis is on dominating the environment and the main threat comes from a 'neutral' or indipendent faction. Think Alpha Centauri but with a much deeper ecosystem simulation and less inter-faction struggle.

[cpmartins]

Distant Worlds. I still, to this day, don't exactly know how I conquered the galaxy.

[BlueMemphis]

Distant worlds crossed with Stellaris would be my sweet spot.

I love the sense of scale in DW and how you can see the link between your flourishing economy and your empire as the map became filled with blips representing your various trade and supply ships acting like red blood cells carrying oxygen whilst the white cells that are your military deal with the various threats and monsters that pop up. Watching all these entities go about their business like worker bees was soothing af and was a far more satisfying visual representation of your economy and population then just watching numbers go up.

Now cross that with the way stellaris does anomalies and story events (disclaimer: i do make heavy use of event mods in my game) aswell as the tech system being more fun imo (yeah its rng but i prefer that to a linear tech tree you can plan ahead for with 100% accuracy, there should be an element of unknown when researching) and that would be a banger of a 4x at least in space, adapt it as needed for other settings.

[General Reign]

There is a new Star Trek one coming out.

[Galdred]

There is a new Star Trek one coming out.

Wasn't the old Birth of the Federation among the better ones?

[Emphyrio]

I like a moo clone called Stars in Shadow. One thing that's good about it is that instead of many small wars, everyone soon ends up being allied to somebody else, and by midgame you'll be fighting one big galaxy-wide war. It just needs a couple more expansions and it'll be a perfect game.

[Klerik]

What features would you like to see in a perfect 4X game?

320x200 interlaced FMVs

[General Reign]

I just want the new Trek one to be good. I am really tired of modding these space games to get what I want.

[Klerik]

What features would you like to see in a perfect 4X game?

Master of Orion 2 on Playstation

[General Reign]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek ... Federation

This just needs to be updated so they better fucking do it right and leave that Nutrek shit mostly out of it.

[Klerik]

[General Reign]

I really wish I could play that game with other people. I really wish I could play that game with other people. I really wish I could play that game with other people.

[Emphyrio]

I really wish I could play that game with other people. I really wish I could play that game with other people. I really wish I could play that game with other people.

Don't worry, SMAC isn't fun with other people.

[General Reign]

I really wish I could play that game with other people. I really wish I could play that game with other people. I really wish I could play that game with other people.

Don't worry, SMAC isn't fun with other people.

Really? Well then I want real multiplayer.

[Emphyrio]

Are there any 4x's with good multiplayer?

My experiences have been bad. The people I've played against apperantly expected to just play norush4hours peaceful empire building instead of getting ruthlessly crushed the second I had an advantage. A couple of them threw a fit a literally never spoke to me again.

Dominions 5 has good multiplayer I guess, but that's more of a 2X.

[Nemesis]

I would be in for some HQ SMAC.