Zodiac Legion: A tactical RPG with kingdom building elements

For discussing tactical and strategy games. What's the difference between tactics and strategy anyways?
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Galdred
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Zodiac Legion: A tactical RPG with kingdom building elements

Post by Galdred »

Hey and thanks for the warm welcome here! I have been working on Zodiac Legion for quite some time now.

Zodiac Legion is a turnbased tactical RPG, in which you take command of an arcane chivalric order in a feudal world on the eve of a magic reawakening. As the commander of the order, your duty is to lead your knights in daring dungeon raids to recover magic knowledge, or harass the forces of your sorcerous enemies.
In between missions, you will develop your stronghold, rebuild your stronghold, and manage the research efforts of your order.

When the work began on the game, the initial vision was to bring the X-COM mix of tactics and strategic geoscape into a fantasy setting, along with its high lethality. The game is also inspired by OG Chaos Gate and various tabletop dungeon crawlers, like Warhammer Quest or Descent (and some parts of the system were inspired by Blood Bowl because I really love the game).


The game features fully destructible dungeons (with the proper research):
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But you can also create some walls if your prefer.

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The game will also feature extensive character armor customization, as we used a paperdolling system to assemble character sprites from various pieces.






The game is scheduled for early access release in Q4 2023.
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Post by Galdred »

I am now working on the semi-randomized level generation. It is a mix of the OG X-COM and XCOM 2 approaches, in that we randomly place preset blocks in a preset map.
But as we are also using a lot of dungeons, it is a bit trickier, because we need to make sure that all areas are reachable, and the resulting map is not too imbalanced (with large empty areas, or lot of backtracking to do).

The reason we went with the idea of reawakening magic was that it allows us to start from a "purely feudal" world, and slowly transition to a fantasy one. We also wanted the game to be rooted in realism, especially when it comes to combat, so armor will be very important early on, and require some efforts to bypass (by making the opponent fall, or getting critical hits to reach the weakest parts), but as the game goes on, your heroes will have more tools at their disposal to deal with it.
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aeternalis
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Post by aeternalis »

I think I might have posted this in your Codex thread long ago, but this is close to a dream game concept for me and you've been chugging away at it for quite a while. Keep up the awesome work.

("Reawakening magic" is totally my kind of shit, BTW.)
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Post by Ratcatcher »

Hey @Galdred, nice to see you here. I'm Matalarata on the codex, don't know if you remember but we talked boardgames and similar multiple times, in the past.
I'm impressed and flabbergasted, I completely failed to notice your thread on the codex. This looks absolutely amazing! You even went with hexes, I dunno what to say!

The graphics are delicious! Great art direction, quick but meaningful animations, I like everything I see here. Insta wishlist + downloading the demo as I write. I probably won't have time to try it until monday but for what I've seen so far, you can count on me throwing money in your face full price, on day one.
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Post by Galdred »

Ratcatcher wrote: February 18th, 2023, 23:39
Hey @Galdred, nice to see you here. I'm Matalarata on the codex, don't know if you remember but we talked boardgames and similar multiple times, in the past.
I'm impressed and flabbergasted, I completely failed to notice your thread on the codex. This looks absolutely amazing! You even went with hexes, I dunno what to say!

The graphics are delicious! Great art direction, quick but meaningful animations, I like everything I see here. Insta wishlist + downloading the demo as I write. I probably won't have time to try it until monday but for what I've seen so far, you can count on me throwing money in your face full price, on day one.
Thank you! I do remember our conversations about 4X and dungeon crawler tabletop games indeed. As for the demo, I haven't changed it for some time, as I have been overhauling the way levels are made and quite a few other major changes (higher importance of stamina and armor).
The main issues currently are its usability : font and UI sizes are not adjustable and too small, and the game lacks a help index.
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Post by Galdred »

Here is our latest Steam update about medieval authenticity and combat in the game:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/812910/e ... _9_100000_
To kill a knight...
Authenticity and historicity in the combat of Zodiac Legion
Greetings, commanders! In this update, we're excited to share with you the forthcoming changes to our combat system and the design objectives that guided these modifications.

Knowledge is power
In designing Zodiac Legion's combat system, our primary goal was to imbue it with a sense of authenticity that aligns with the game's narrative of transitioning from a traditional late medieval era into an age of magic. As combat is a critical aspect of the game, we wanted to make sure that it reflected historical medieval fights as closely as possible. This entails a realistic portrayal of armored combat, shifting away from the individual idiosyncrasies commonly seen in many games and films, where armor doesn't function as expected and provides sub-par levels of protection.

To rectify this, I undertook extensive research, through historical treatises and personal combat. This also allowed me to gain insight from enthusiasts who have spent considerable time studying or practicing these disciplines.
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The Role of Armor
One crucial fact about late medieval combat is that plate armor was virtually immune to cuts and even thrusts. Recent tests suggest that breastplates were even resistant to arrows fired from a longbow, and injuries were primarily inflicted when less armored body parts were hit (i.e, by "critical hits").



In hand-to-hand combat, armor often necessitated the use of specific techniques to strike an opponent's vulnerable parts or to gain access to them. Techniques like half-swording or the mordschlag employed weapons in ways that deviated considerably from their original intended purpose. Grappling, often a dungeon master's worst nightmare, emerged as a critical skill to facilitate this, as the protection offered by armor also made it possible to go much more up-close against an opponent.
Interestingly, the classic D&D armor system aimed to depict this. Initially, I believed damage reduction was a superior mechanism, but understanding that most attacks should be virtually 100% reduced by armor, I now appreciate the need for recognizing the many poorly protected (or completely unprotected) areas on most armor.
► Show Spoiler
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Armor and Attacks in the game
To more effectively represent heavy armor within the game's context, we're considering two distinct methods.
The first approach involves regular attacks only inflicting "impact damage" on heavily armored characters, with heavier weapons causing more of this damage than balanced ones. To inflict significant damage, a thrusting or impact weapon would require a critical hit.
The second approach involves introducing special targeted attacks, varying by weapon but capable of achieving one of the following:
Reducing the opponent's defense against future attacks by attempting to seize their weapon arm
Stunning the opponent through a forceful blow to the head
Forcing the opponent to the ground
Thrusting at the target's least protected areas
► Show Spoiler
Both strategies will also help differentiate between weapons and armor types. The difficulty of hitting a weak point, and the consequent reduction in protection, will depend on the armor type. In contrast, the effects of critical hits or the special attacks available will depend on the weapon type.

Armored Teamwork
Most of these techniques would be impractical to perform within a formation as grappling leaves both fighters very exposed. However, team support already plays an essential part in our game rules, as characters aid their teammates in both attack and defense, unless this support is negated by the presence of other characters. Therefore, we don't anticipate significant changes to this aspect.
Taking teamwork into account, some of the special attacks may leave both the attacker and the defender with the "exposed" condition. Additionally, "pushing contests" between formations, a common feature in ancient and medieval foot combat, could isolate opponents, allowing your second line to engage or finish them off with minimal effort.
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What about magic?
The idea of magic becoming more available as the game progresses is one of the reasons we wanted authentic combat in the first place. It’s a game-changer that opens up new tactical options. While armor provides excellent protection against physical attacks, it offers less defense against magical powers. Some spells might bypass armor completely, striking directly at the enemy's life force, making magical artifacts and protection incredibly valuable. On the other hand, magic can also enhance the capabilities of your mundane warriors by punishing enemies for maintaining their formation with a fireball, and leveraging telekinesis to pull your target into your own formation.
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Authentic assets
A good part of the work of the past weeks has been focused on using AI to improve our animation workflow by drafting frames of new elements from our existing ones. That should allow us to add a few missing armor types, like gambesons or brigandines.
It's also easier to add new animations by first only making them for a single set (here, a "naked" barbarian), and then generating an initial draft of all the variations needed to accommodate our existing sets.
The animations we're working on implementing include making opponents prone, reloading a crossbow, or thrusting/half-swording:

ImageImageImage



Conclusion

Thank you for your attention. As always, we're eager to hear your feedback about the planned changes, and what else you would like us to talk about.
May the stars align in your favor.
TLDR: 1v1 knight duels involve a lot of grappling, but within a group, the dynamic changes a lot, and the dynamic becomes more about isolating opponents to drive them down.
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Post by Kalarion »

@Galdred any news on this? In particular, any significant updates or a release date?
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Post by Vergil »

This looks very sovl I hope all goes well with the development of it.
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Post by maidenhaver »

How'd you get Sean Connery to do your trailer?
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Post by Galdred »

I am currently correcting a few micro-issues in the semi-procedural generation system. Once we have randomized levels in place, it will be easier to add the inter mission phase.
I patched the freeze on launch issue out, but the next major update is still a few weeks in the future, as I would like to add geoscape features back in for this one (and some of the revamped combat mechanics).
maidenhaver wrote: September 17th, 2023, 18:53
How'd you get Sean Connery to do your trailer?
Haha, actually, we had thought about having someone famous narrate the trailer, but ended up deciding against it, because it would be the only part not really in the game.
Btw, I'm thinking about making an accolade trailer with a few quotes.


Image

Anyway, here are the next steps we described in the Steam roadmap newspost:
► Show Spoiler
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Post by maidenhaver »

I don't see the point of all these rpg lite nuxcoms.
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Post by Humbaba »

Lives and dies entirely by AI, level design and progression. Mostly impossible to ascertain from videos and snippets.



-Humbaba
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Post by Galdred »

Our grant request from region South in France has been approved, so we should have a bit more funding, which should allow us to add a few local monsters, like the Tarasque and Coulobre, among other things:

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maidenhaver wrote: September 30th, 2023, 20:20
I don't see the point of all these rpg lite nuxcoms.
Actually, Zodiac Legion was never meant to be a nuXCOM clone: I started working on the design before Nu XCOM arrived. We just wanted to combine a strategic layer like the geoscape of X-COM to tactical dungeon crawling.

The dungeon crawling part takes more inspiration from tabletop games like Descent: Journeys in the Dark, and Blood Bowl (mostly for the way support zones work) than from either nu or OG X-COM, because melee combat requires a pretty different ruleset to work (engagement ranges are shorter, so you need to reward moving fast, otherwise, the dungeons get too long to cover).

We wanted to give more context and meaning to the tactical battles through the strategic layer.
Humbaba wrote: September 30th, 2023, 21:19
Lives and dies entirely by AI, level design and progression. Mostly impossible to ascertain from videos and snippets.



-Humbaba
I definitely agree on that, and we already put a lot of efforts on the first two points, but that will still require a lot of iterations to improve. I will work on the progression system as soon as I am happy with the level randomization (it works a bit like in OG X-COM and XCOM 2, with premade plots assembled together randomly).
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Post by Galdred »

A written interview I made for Tom's Gaming Blog:

https://tomsgaming.com/2024/01/28/alexa ... interview/
Last edited by Galdred on January 28th, 2024, 20:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

We were also very lucky to get significant funding from the French National Centre of Cinema (CNC), and the region of Provence-Alps-French Riviera, who believed in the potential of the project.
Was this difficult to obtain?
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Post by Galdred »

rusty_shackleford wrote: January 28th, 2024, 10:39
We were also very lucky to get significant funding from the French National Centre of Cinema (CNC), and the region of Provence-Alps-French Riviera, who believed in the potential of the project.
Was this difficult to obtain?
It is difficult to tell, I just mounted a grant request file in both case(with 40 pages detailling various aspects of the game, and 20 pages of accounting related paperwork). I don't know the rejection rate, but they are typically more eager to help established studios than new ones (especially for solo devs), so a lot of devs don't even bother trying (also because they only match your funds at best, so you cannot ask for more than you gave from your own pocket, and you cannot use the grant to pay yourself).
The first time I approached them, a few years ago, the coordinator of the program (the civil servant who checks that every document requested is present, and don't get to vote or anything) told me that the request would certainly be rejected, and adivsed me to withdraw it (you can request only once for each game), which I did, so that we could come back with a more advanced prototype, and a trailer.
In our case, I think the external validation (number of wishlists, press articles, Splattercat Youtube video) helped a lot as we had 0 reputation.
Last edited by Galdred on January 28th, 2024, 11:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kalarion »

Tom's Article wrote:
How will loot be acquired, and will it be equipped on an individual basis, or does it work differently?

In a traditional heroic setting, there is a strong connection between a knight and his weapon, so we’d rather have Arthur keep wielding Excalibur instead of swapping it for an extra +3 every 2 levels. In order to do so, we’ll mostly have loot serve as enchantment material, to strengthen the magical power of a character’s weapons and armor. However, on death, it would make sense to transfer the artifacts from one character to another.
This sounds very intriguing and cool, and very worrying at the same time.

I really like the idea of a Knight finding the weapon he bonds with. Maybe he performs some noteworthy deed with it, and then gives it a name as commemoration. Then it acquires power over time as the weapon and wielder work together. And then when he dies it can be passed on as an heirloom to a promising protege or whatever. Or maybe your sage can empower a weapon based on the deeds performed by it with rare magical materials. I really don't like "turn Iron Longsword into Steel Longsword with X materials gained from missions, give +1 after wielder gains X experience", etc.

Which direction are you going for? Can you share more specifics?
Last edited by Kalarion on January 28th, 2024, 17:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Humbaba »

Kalarion wrote: January 28th, 2024, 17:56
In a traditional heroic setting, there is a strong connection between a knight and his weapon, so we’d rather have Arthur keep wielding Excalibur instead of swapping it for an extra +3 every 2 levels. In order to do so, we’ll mostly have loot serve as enchantment material, to strengthen the magical power of a character’s weapons and armor. However, on death, it would make sense to transfer the artifacts from one character to another.
You're COMPLETELY missing the point and *I* will tell you what to do instead!

First of all, the Excalibur comparison is on shaky legs. Excalibur is equivalent to a unique artefact tier weapon, special because of its inherent attributes, not because of any bond with the wielder.

Second, enchanting weapons with materials isn't a substitute or simulation for a character bonding with his weapon. It's just regular old and boring upgrading the likes of which we've seen a million times before.

This is not a matter to be handled via loot but with an affinity system. If you wanna simulate a knight bonding with his sword or whatever then this can only be accomplished if the knight in question is only able to do certain things with his chosen weapon. There must be a mechanical reason for why this character has chosen to bond with this weapon.

You can achieve this by giving characters affinities towards certain weapons and intrinsic attributes of their own. I'm not talking about proficiencies. A knight may be "proficient" with several types of weapons (swords, axes, maces etc.) but specific weapon types must be able to provide certain advantages (hit bonuses, dmg bonuses, special moves etc.) over others and the knight must be able to use them most efficiently.

Example:
Roland is a knight with "Weapon Affinity: Swords" , "Preferred Fighting Style: Defensive" and "Preferred Grip: One Handed".
Roland has the choice between 5 weapons:

"Mancutter" , which is a "Sword" with the attributes "Offensive" and "One Handed". Roland is able to use the bonuses provided by Mancutter via the Sword and One Handed attributes to their fullest potential but misses out on whatever bonus the Offensive attribute provides because his fighting style is Defensive.

"Protector" is a "Sword" with the attributes "Defensive" and "Two Handed". Roland is able to reap the benefits of the weapon's attributes that correspond to his own attributes.

"Headbreaker" is a "Mace" with the attributes "Defensive" and "One Handed". Same rules apply.

"Marroweater" is a "Sword" with the attributes "Defensive" and "One Handed". Seemingly a perfect fit.

However, it is challenged by "Silveredge", which is just as perfect a fit BUT bestows a different set of bonuses per attribute. A smart player would now try to make the optimal choice of weapon depending on the role Roland is meant to fulfill in combat.

Once the perfect weapon has been given to Roland, he now can level up along with it, increasing the bonuses he gets from the weapon with every odd level.

Leave materials n shiet to upgrade armor with. Bonding should be relegated to weapons, upgrading to worn gear. Updooting weapons with looted materials is gamey as all fuck. Use all this gummint moneyz to implement this STAT.






-Humbaba
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Post by Galdred »

The way we envisioned it was to have a strong coupling between Zodiac Signs, weapons and characters:
Each of the 13 Zodiac signs would have a few artifacts tied to it. These would need to be reforged, and given to a character of the corresponding sign (Taurus would mostly go with hammers, Sagittarius with bows, and so on, but some signs may have several possible weapons). Once a knight is bestowed a weapon of his order, he is not supposed to swap it (but he can still use generic grade magic weapons in supplement).
As the "sign" gets empowered in the citadel, all the artifacts tied to that sign would get stronger.

The available powers of the weapons would depend on the standing of the character in the order.
So if Gaius is wielding the sword Marroweater, as the champion of the order of Leo, he would have access to more powers than it the same sword had been bestowed to Avitus, mere knight of the order of Leo.

That said, I would also love to explore living weapons choosing their wielders, like in the Bloodlust RPG Image, but it was already very hard to make it work in a tabletop RPG, so I think it would be even harder in a CRPG.
Last edited by Galdred on January 28th, 2024, 20:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Weapon choice is only interesting insofar as they offer different capabilities. If the choice is something like +1 accuracy OR +1 damage, a savvy player will just pick the mathematically optimal one and forget about the rest. If each character is meant to have a specific set of capabilities that can't be significantly altered by weapon choice, then it's fine for it to just be linear upgrades.
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Post by BobT »

Stopped lurking and made an account just to post here with some thoughts.
This looks really interesting! Wishlisted and will play the demo once I'm done with my current games (so take any of the below with a pinch of salt, as I'm just going off what I see here, so far)

Favoured Weapons / Special Moves
I hope that throughout most of the game, the chars are just using standard weapons, whatever they come across. In RPGs it's fun to start with shit farming / training gear and work up.
However later if they start getting more unique / legendary / well crafted weapons, I can see them forming a bond / affinity with it. Unlocking better stats and moves with THAT weapon.
Still have at least one character who's a "Goblin Slayer" type dude though who gets bonuses for using whatever he has to hand! (And forming no affinity with any specific weapon or type).

Characters should be able to use 'any' type of weapon for their class, however it's ok to have some slight stat preferences per character, where they have better stats or moves with their favoured type.
Either set it per character, or have them "develop" the affinity by using that type of weapon more.
Greater affinity should unlock additional movesets, and more interesting "crit" moves. I always liked how in Shining Force 3 characters would just randomly use an awesome special move in place of a normal attack, and some special moves even "grew" as the char progressed in experience with the equipped weapon. See how "Lance Charge" becomes "Super Charge", and then "Mega Charge" (the latter at 4:32) here:
► Show Spoiler
^ By default that dude is "best" with lances, but can easily be equipped with a halberd or spear instead and develop the movesets for those. Ranged attacks with spear also have their own "ranged special moves"
So if the char has their Unique / Favoured weapon and isn't going to be switching it out anymore, they need to "grow" in movesets instead, rather than just boring stats. And not just grow "additional" moves, but grow the moves themselves, too. (as per the above).
The special moves they use could depend on the armour type (whether physical or magical, and the subtype of that) the enemy has.

Even then, I presume they'll be switching out their secondary weapons / gear so some progression can still be found there.
On that note, I presume each char should be able to also hold a secondary, and ranged weapon of some kind? (Main / Unique, Offhand, Backup / Ranged / Special)
Consider different weapon movesets, unlocked per weapon type, based on the experience the char has with the weapon. That should also go for the secondary weapons to an extent.
It would be nice for chars to use any type of weapon, and movesets (based on use as above). I liked how in Last Remnant you could equip almost any weapon on any character, based on what you like / feel they would use:
► Show Spoiler
^ All those moves, ANY char can do with that weapon, if developed it enough. That was one of the few games I had my main char dual-wield axes, but then switch to sword & board (out of battle) when necessary.

Don't forget shield moves too, shield-bashes and the like, which should stun or counter on a successful block.
Loving the amount of spears & halberds I'm seeing!
For ranged weapons, Slings, throwing spears / axes, bows, crossbows, handcannons?

Magic / Animations
I imagine those "Special / Crit Moves" would extend to magic/spells. Again in Shining Force / Holy Ark it was awesome to see my mages sometimes blast out an enhanced version of a spell, at random.
Hope any "Mage" type chars will use a STAFF, not gay lil twinky wands. I always play a wizard with Staff and a short/medium arming sword.
If there's "Mage" type chars, when casting, ensure to have some awesome animations that really get across that they're POWERFUL and commanding the ethereal. I want to see hair & clothing flapping:
► Show Spoiler
Misc:
Will there be formations?
Will there be a "Friendship" / "Bond" sort of mechanic? Chars who often fight close together (against the same enemy) giving eachother a bit of a boost in battle when they're nearby.
Last edited by BobT on January 29th, 2024, 08:09, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Galdred »

Humbaba wrote: January 28th, 2024, 19:29

Leave materials n shiet to upgrade armor with. Bonding should be relegated to weapons, upgrading to worn gear. Updooting weapons with looted materials is gamey as all fuck. Use all this gummint moneyz to implement this STAT.
WhiteShark wrote: January 28th, 2024, 21:34
Weapon choice is only interesting insofar as they offer different capabilities. If the choice is something like +1 accuracy OR +1 damage, a savvy player will just pick the mathematically optimal one and forget about the rest. If each character is meant to have a specific set of capabilities that can't be significantly altered by weapon choice, then it's fine for it to just be linear upgrades.
We want weapons to excel at different things, but that will be a hard balance to strike. Poleaxes would be specialized at applying blunt trauma through armor. Swords would be the best weapons for defense, and flail would work better if you are not hampered by having allies you try not to hit at the same time, and so on.
So we won't necessarily have special moves, because that would also clash with the magic effects of weapons(if both are special attacks, we'd need to combine them too).

In a way, it could make more sense to have the armor being the unique artifact, and the weapons be the tool you pick for the right job. Because a lot of medieval weapons are not that durable to begin with (bows, polearms, anything with a wooden handle), and knights would usually come equipped with at least two or three (if you also count the dagger). Typically lance/spear into sword into dagger when the situation demands it, while they would usually have a single suit of armor.
Armors usually don't have a special treatment in myths, though, apart from some animes, though:

► Show Spoiler
But in the first example(Saint Seiya), they did remove weapons altogether (and knights fight empty handed, apart from the power of friendship).
BobT wrote: January 29th, 2024, 07:50
Stopped lurking and made an account just to post here with some thoughts.
This looks really interesting! Wishlisted and will play the demo once I'm done with my current games (so take any of the below with a pinch of salt, as I'm just going off what I see here, so far)
Thank you, good sire! :salute: The demo has not been improved for ages, as we want to add the new mission system in the next version, and maybe the first iteration of the campaign system.
BobT wrote: January 29th, 2024, 07:50
Don't forget shield moves too, shield-bashes and the like, which should stun or counter on a successful block.
Loving the amount of spears & halberds I'm seeing!
For ranged weapons, Slings, throwing spears / axes, bows, crossbows, handcannons?
I'm trying to add a shield bash/charge animation indeed, but I cannot guarantee it.
As for ranged weapons, we have bows and throwing axes. We are adding crossbows, but probably not slings, because they got out of fashin at this time, and would require specific animations. Spear would be great though, if we manage to add them without crippling the animation budget, because it was a common technique to throw it and use this time to charge with a sword.
BobT wrote: January 29th, 2024, 07:50
Misc:
Will there be formations?
Will there be a "Friendship" / "Bond" sort of mechanic? Chars who often fight close together (against the same enemy) giving eachother a bit of a boost in battle when they're nearby.
Not sure about friendship. I would like an organic system like that, but these also tend to be quite gamey in the end, and maybe even force characters pairing a bit too much.
As for formations, characters already have a formation bonus that works a bit like in Blood Bowl:
Characters that are adjacent to the target(or attacker in defense), but no other enemy provide a bonus.
They also provide this bonus if they are adjacent to both attacker/target and the acting character if both have the formation skill.
Characters equipped with polearms provide bonus from 2 tiles apart, but not to adjacent tiles.
Characters with shields also provide the formation bonus to nearby characters targeted by ranged attacks, provided they are closer or at the same distance from the target.
Characters that are on the other side of an enemy provide a flanking bonus on top of the formation bonus.
Last edited by Galdred on January 29th, 2024, 11:16, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by BobT »

Hmm Unique Armour could be interesting. OR Weapon. As long as it's 'just' the primary weapon that's unique (and durability isn't a problem as it's enchanted. That or you'd just repair it).
Unique, special weapon that once they've got, they keep, and then a selection of random other weapons they use for backup (the right tool for the job). Best of both worlds!
Another thing I liked in the shining games was some of the artifact weapons / armour came with an "ability" where you could "Use" the weapon / armour to cast something. Could only so it so many times, though. If it's that unique / legendary it would be cool if it "does something" beyond just being another shiny weapon with different stats. The Last Remnant ones give special moves unique to the specific weapons, no matter who's wielding them.

Maybe the special moves could be the "magical effect"? As in they're the "crit" moves that can bash through armour etc. Whether that's randomly, or manually triggered. Either's fine though. Just make sure if they're sticking with one primary weapon forever (once they've got it, later in the game) that there's still some sort of "Progression" with it.

Crossbows would be a definite for this era. Agree with the rest.
Please update here when the demo is updated! It looks a very interesting game and I'm going to properly go through the videos and promo stuff later. My comments so far have just been from a skim of the posts and couldn't help posting since it looks cool!

Yeah the problem with the friendship stuff in Shining Force is that it didn't make much of a difference, just a small stat boost. I think could still do something interesting with it, though since certain character's are probably going to do a "one-two" style tactic quite often. Such as an archer softening someone up and then a knight whamming them, or a knight defending a mage or something. Maybe an ability to chain the attacks to hit "at once", once they've built up that camaraderie / experience of fighting together? (Using the same particular tactics against the same targets). Such could punch through armour, pin someone and kill them, or burn through healing.

Formations sound great! Hopefully the spears / polearms can hit at least 1 tile further than normal weapons. The "reach" of those weapons is their biggest draw.
Really looking forward to learn more of this. Keep it up mate! :)
If you need any more funding in the mean-time then make a paypal or something where people can drop small amounts. People are used to funding random crap on kickstarter that never gets released, and you have a demo already etc. so it could pull in a bit extra for you.

We need more manly medieval games. I really miss the older ones.
Last edited by BobT on January 29th, 2024, 11:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Galdred
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Post by Galdred »

We wanted to have some special moves with magic weapons indeed. Some variations of AoE, or a sword that would teleport you behind your opponent, on top of the hammer breaching wall we already have.
This one will be tied to its weapon as soon as the system is in place, and there will definitely be a system to limit the amount of time it can be used in a level (but it may be through expanding stamina/mana rather than a set amount of uses).

Handcannons may be possible to add too, as they would basically have the same animations as the crossobow, but it would be hard to find them a proper niche between crossbows and longbows.
Last edited by Galdred on January 29th, 2024, 16:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Humbaba
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Post by Humbaba »

Galdred wrote: January 29th, 2024, 16:02
Handcannons may be possible to add too, as they would basically have the same animations as the crossobow, but it would be hard to find them a proper niche between crossbows and longbows.
Handcannons encroach too heavily on the crossbow's territory (slow firing, armor piercing ranged option), unless you just wanna go one step further into the extreme and make it even MORE hard hitting but that's boring.

Add pistols instead, so we can have pistoliers babeeee

Image

Pistols can provide a cool new option for close combat and a new type of sidearm, so swordcels don't always have to yield to poleaxechads when it comes to dealing with armor and aren't completely helpless against ranged combatants. Realistically though, you'd only get one shot off per combat because you don't actually have time to reload.

So what you're gonna do is add a brace of pistols so our guys can shoot loads of times babeeeee

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-Humbaba
Last edited by Humbaba on January 29th, 2024, 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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BobT
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Post by BobT »

Humbaba wrote: January 29th, 2024, 19:31
Galdred wrote: January 29th, 2024, 16:02
Handcannons may be possible to add too, as they would basically have the same animations as the crossobow, but it would be hard to find them a proper niche between crossbows and longbows.
Handcannons encroach too heavily on the crossbow's territory (slow firing, armor piercing ranged option), unless you just wanna go one step further into the extreme and make it even MORE hard hitting but that's boring.
Hmm, they're pretty similar in their intended use, however I think they could definitely have different attributes.

Hand-cannons, much higher damage, "ok aim" even for noobs, probably better against armour, better against fast moving targets or swarms. Slower to reload, not very versatile, loud. Few ammo types (Slug, explosive), not great at long range, awesome at short range, loads of ammo.

Crossbows, not as slow to reload, good aim even for noobs, decent vs medium, QUIET! Many different bolt types (poisoned, magical etc?), good amount of ammo, decent at medium and short range.

Bow, quick to reload, ok aim (needs proficiency), ok penetration, not great vs armour, QUIET!, some arrow types, slightly less ammo, long range, not great at short.

So yeah I think there could be a good amount of variation there between the weapons. I'd want all 3 in my squad.
Pistols could be interesting, I guess similar to the hand-cannons but slow to reload, medium damage, great aim even for noobs, short-ish range, better against single targets, loud, 1 ammo type. I'd just opt for the handcannon but whatevs.
Last edited by BobT on January 29th, 2024, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by BobT »

Regarding random levels, can you mix in a few hand-designed ones too? Sometimes can't beat a really well designed level. Fine to mix in some autogen ones to cut down on labour and give variance, though.

Still would love to see "special moves" grow as they learn more or gain proficiency. Adding more slashes a combo, for example.
Last edited by BobT on January 29th, 2024, 22:06, edited 1 time in total.
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