Lutheran thread (also protestantlols)

[Klerik]

[WhiteShark]

Atheism wasn't always a capital crime, but it did exclude the lower orders from participating in society and having personhood. What you call paganism wasn't some unchanging universal religion, nor was it always syncretic. In ancient times, only the founding families, that is land holders, had religion and therefor citizenship. In later times, foreigners and lower orders could be welcomed into the religion, but only as the city expanded beyond the boundaries set by the founding fathers. These ancestor cults grew into polytheism. That's why there are so many jupiters, zeuses, aphrodites, etc Am I pagan? Yes, because I'm a redneck, and I have a family cemetary. That's all the religion I need.

You aren't pagan. Ancient pagans would laugh at you or worse. None of them were materialists. Bare minimum, they believed in spirits to appease and call on for aid; at most, they believed in gods, eternity, and an afterlife. Your political and materialistic understanding of paganism could only arise in a 21st century mind. Commemorate your family—this is most laudable—but don't pretend your beliefs correspond to any real religion, past or present.

As for do two things plus two things always equal four things, when you're just doing numbers in your head, a tiny hollow full of imaginary things that don't exist, then yeah I guess your two plus two is always four. If you want to be any more descriptive than things and numerals, that equation is going to be inadequate and false. Is the color blue ever red? No. Does that mean Truth exists? No. Not once you bring those abstracts into the world that does exist, where two things and two things start occupying different times and places, and perspectives on what are equal and valuble matter.

Two plus two equals four is not an invention of the human mind: it is a preexistng truth. Mathemeticians don't invent math, they discover it. That's why it requires rigorous proofs to show that it is true. This alone proves that there are immaterial realities. You use 'real' to mean 'material', a stealthy a priori rejection of everything non-material, but this is an unfounded assumption. The only defense you offer for it is the idea that the immaterial cannot be known, and I already showed that to be a self-defeating proposition.

Math never built anything eternal,

Obviously. The material world isn't eternal. Everything material tends toward chaos.

and if math proves eternal truth, why aren't you a just a pythagorean or platonist? Why attach more things onto it, like a judgement or resurrection?

Because it is an indisputable historical fact that the God-man Jesus Christ became incarnate on Earth, worked innumerable miracles, was crucified, rose from the dead, and ascended into Heaven.

[maidenhaver]

I never said I was an ancient pagan, and I really don't think I'd be laughed at any more than you lol Like its my goal to make a religion you can follow anyway. I don't think 2+2 proves you're an eternal soul in a body, or that there is an eternal Truth. Sounds suspicious and very convenient to claim that numerals in your head prove you've discovered eternity. I guess Pontus Pilate was a dumbass and Jesus didn't have time to go over it again. Anyway, 2+2 doesn't always equal 4, so it isn't always true and universal. I don't agree the bible proves Jesus rose from the dead or your version of Christianity is the truth. I don't think the bible proves Jesus existed.