Elder Scrolls VI: The Reality and the Ideal

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KnightoftheWind
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Elder Scrolls VI: The Reality and the Ideal

Post by KnightoftheWind »

With The Elder Scrolls VI confirmed to be released sometime after Starfield (Soyfield), what are your thoughts and ideas on what the next game should be?. I say 'should' because we all know that the next game will be pozzed and next to unplayable, and I don't just mean the bugs. We're talking Redguard lives matter, tranny Bretons, sodomite romance options, you name it.

But I personally would like to see the next game set in High Rock, and really embody all the classic fantasy concepts that are seldom seen these days. Bright colors, traditional wildlife and monsters, and larger than life NPCs with wondrous cities and architecture. Think Oblivion, but without the daedra elements and dialed to 11. With far less uncanny visuals to boot. It seems like there are way more subversive, or "dark" fantasy games than actual high fantasy ones. Everything is always gloomy and edgy, and we need an antidote to all of that. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

Let me know your thoughts, kings!.
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Post by Tweed »

Reality: bland, vapid, boring, and any other adjectives that fit the embodiment of dullness. It'll be too insipid to even be offensive.

Ideal: Big sweaty Argonians, rape dungeons, realistic horse vaginas. Countless hours of modder drama and endless bugs from Bethesderp's frankenengine.
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Post by MadPreacher »

Tweed wrote: March 3rd, 2023, 23:37
Reality: bland, vapid, boring, and any other adjectives that fit the embodiment of dullness. It'll be too insipid to even be offensive.

Ideal: Big sweaty Argonians, rape dungeons, realistic horse vaginas. Countless hours of modder drama and endless bugs from Bethesderp's frankenengine.
Modders will fix it...

:headbang:
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Post by Gregz »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 3rd, 2023, 22:41
We're talking Redguard lives matter, tranny Bretons, sodomite romance options, you name it.
This is fine as long as I'm able to kill them.

I want a true PVP space with sensible persons on one side, idpol trannies on the other, and the ability for us to kill each other. I want a game inside of which we can truly kill them.

This is a massively uncapitalized space. I need to express my intolerance of these people in a meaningful way. I want the culture war to go hot inside of cyberspace, right now. They all need to die. :mad:
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

Tweed wrote: March 3rd, 2023, 23:37
Reality: bland, vapid, boring, and any other adjectives that fit the embodiment of dullness. It'll be too insipid to even be offensive.

Ideal: Big sweaty Argonians, rape dungeons, realistic horse vaginas. Countless hours of modder drama and endless bugs from Bethesderp's frankenengine.
Another contrarian that doesn't like Skyrim, eh?. I found the game to be enjoyable even without mods, yes I said it. The game does a wondrous job of making you feel like you're on an adventure, in a massive world. Regardless of how you may feel about the supposedly "dumbed down" mechanics, the overall impression you get is what makes any RPG worth playing. And for my money, Skyrim was an excellent role-playing game, and provided a sense of adventuring like none other.

Sure they could decide to remove fast travel and map markers in the next game, perhaps they even should, but Skyrim isn't a bad game just because it isn't cryptic or challenging enough. I find it far more playable than Morrowind, and better mechanically than Oblivion. Bethesda really made a banger, and it had to have been good for it to sustain itself all these years. Plenty of other games are moddable, but none have reached Skyrim's level. I hope Elder Scrolls VI continues where Skyrim left off, but again I don't think it's going to happen. Especially with Micro*oft in the picture.
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Post by NEG »

Odds are, it will be unsalvageable. If Bethesda couldn't make a game set in Skyrim into an interesting game, I doubt they will be able to make one set in Wakanda Redguard be enjoyable to me.

Daggerfall is the ideal. Morrowind was passable only because of the lore and the unique setting. Skyrim and Oblivion had neither of these things, but at least had typical fantasy worlds with white people.

You do the math.
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Post by GhostCow »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 02:05
Another contrarian that doesn't like Skyrim, eh?. I found the game to be enjoyable even without mods, yes I said it. The game does a wondrous job of making you feel like you're on an adventure, in a massive world. Regardless of how you may feel about the supposedly "dumbed down" mechanics, the overall impression you get is what makes any RPG worth playing. And for my money, Skyrim was an excellent role-playing game, and provided a sense of adventuring like none other.
Are you TemplarGR?
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Post by Acrux »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 02:05
Another contrarian that doesn't like Skyrim, eh?. I found the game to be enjoyable even without mods, yes I said it. The game does a wondrous job of making you feel like you're on an adventure, in a massive world. Regardless of how you may feel about the supposedly "dumbed down" mechanics, the overall impression you get is what makes any RPG worth playing. And for my money, Skyrim was an excellent role-playing game, and provided a sense of adventuring like none other.
The main problem with Skyrim isn't the fast travel or quest markers or crap like that, it's that there's no consequences for quest choice or character build, so every game is the same. You just choose whether are you going to be a stealth archer who dabbles in destruction magic, or a mage who moonlights as a sneaky archer.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

NEG wrote: March 4th, 2023, 02:10
Odds are, it will be unsalvageable. If Bethesda couldn't make a game set in Skyrim into an interesting game, I doubt they will be able to make one set in Wakanda Redguard be enjoyable to me.

Daggerfall is the ideal. Morrowind was passable only because of the lore and the unique setting. Skyrim and Oblivion had neither of these things, but at least had typical fantasy worlds with white people.

You do the math.
Skyrim wasn't "interesting", but it was a well-crafted experience that I can replay again and again and still have it surprise me. Prior games feel a lot more robotic and scripted, while in Skyrim it felt like anything was possible and the world continued even if you weren't playing it. That sort of feeling.

Daggerfall is a game I haven't properly sunk any time into yet, but from what I've played I don't see what is so beloved about it. Maybe it's just the impression I get from the 2D visuals, but it just never looked or played right to me. It's one of those times where I feel a full remake is necessary to properly convey all the ideas the developers may have had when making it. Nowadays you could craft a full 3D world with a high level of detail, and still make it as large as you want it to be, so the opportunity for a "Daggerfall 2" exists- they just won't make it. The Elder Scrolls is too popular now to cater to autistic CRPG gamers with niche tastes. It's a game for zoomers and millennials now, but I still find Skyrim fun regardless. I'm not really excited to see the next installment though, because I already know what it's going to be before a single second of gameplay is ever shown.

It's either going to be set on Hammerfell or Elsweyr, so they can play the "diverse" card and have 70% of the NPCs be redguards or arabian furries. The player character is probably going to be a Black Panther-esque figure, and the antagonists will probably be the Nords or Bretons. Perhaps even the Stormcloaks, if they canonically win the civil war in Skyrim. They'll play into the whole "We wuz Kangz" motif and have spectacular architecture that likely dwarfs anything we've seen before, and have an obnoxious female NPC be the marketed partner. I think gameplay wise we'll see a lot of improvements to combat and the features that are available to the player, I think that's a safe bet. Maybe not as far as removing quest markers and easy fast travel, but they may let you customize more things and have more dynamic A.I.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:07
Oblivion was peak RPG.
Oblivion's aesthetics were spot on, and it had some very creative quests. Unfortunately it's marred by piss-poor programming and ambition that wasn't realized due to time constraints. Bethesda would do well to give it a proper remaster, but barring that OpenMW will eventually support Oblivion in the future so that's pretty rad.
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Post by wndrbr »

No point in discussing TES6 before Starfield is even released.

TES6 will likely use a lot of systemic stuff from Starfield, like procedural landmass generation (previous Howard-era TES games already used it to an extent, but I bet the next one will be much bigger), revamped NPC behavior, etc. Maybe they'll reuse vehicle mechanics by adding rideable carriages or more varied roster of mounts (see that dragon? you can ride it!). Starfield has also a much bigger focus on RPG stuff, so I doubt TES6 will decline any further than skyrim.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

wndrbr wrote: March 4th, 2023, 04:41
No point in discussing TES6 before Starfield is even released.

TES6 will likely use a lot of systemic stuff from Starfield, like procedural landmass generation (previous Howard-era TES games already used it to an extent, but I bet the next one will be much bigger), revamped NPC behavior, etc. Maybe they'll reuse vehicle mechanics by adding rideable carriages or more varied roster of mounts (see that dragon? you can ride it!). Starfield has also a much bigger focus on RPG stuff, so I doubt TES6 will decline any further than skyrim.
Each Bethesda game borrows elements from it's immediate predecessor, so you may be right. I don't think the gameplay will get any simpler than Skyrim, that shouldn't be an issue at all. The worst we can expect is a more polished Skyrim with extra complexities where it makes sense, better visuals and animations, etc. Now that Micros*ft owns the company, I think we can expect a much more polished Elder Scrolls that lacks the series trademark problems. I don't think crashes and bugs is a good look for the Xbox brand, and they know it. They'll steer Todd Howard right, God willing.

But on the flipside, we can absolutely expect some form of monetization and even online elements. Skyrim was surprisingly tame and respectable with it's DLCs, but I question if ES VI will carry that forward, or if your typical modern-day microtransaction fare will be shoehorned in. They may decide to make the grind just a 'tad' bit slower this time around, and sell you back experience with real money. Or worse yet, they'll ponder the massive success of Skyrim with it's longevity, and decide to make it a live service experience on-par with something like Destiny.
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Post by wndrbr »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 04:50
Now that Micros*ft owns the company, I think we can expect a much more polished Elder Scrolls that lacks the series trademark problems. I don't think crashes and bugs is a good look for the Xbox brand, and they know it. They'll steer Todd Howard right, God willing.
i wouldn't be so sure about that. MS are incompetent at managing their internal studios, if anything i expect Bethesda games to become worse in polish. Plus it's not clear if MS even wants to be a gaming company anymore. I heard a rumour that they may get rid of Bethesda and the rest of their gaming divisions if things will keep getting complicated.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 04:50
But on the flipside, we can absolutely expect some form of monetization and even online elements. Skyrim was surprisingly tame and respectable with it's DLCs, but I question if ES VI will carry that forward, or if your typical modern-day microtransaction fare will be shoehorned in. They may decide to make the grind just a 'tad' bit slower this time around, and sell you back experience with real money. Or worse yet, they'll ponder the massive success of Skyrim with it's longevity, and decide to make it a live service experience on-par with something like Destiny.
iirc most of Bethesda's fuckery (like paid mods, bethesda launcher, fo76, etc) happened because of Altman and the rest of their greedy execs. MS managers are incompetent and they know it, so they will likely leave Bethesda to do their thing. I don't expect Bethesda to go into GaaS slotmachine territory, not after Fo76 fiasco that nearly ruined the company.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

wndrbr wrote: March 4th, 2023, 05:00
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 04:50
Now that Micros*ft owns the company, I think we can expect a much more polished Elder Scrolls that lacks the series trademark problems. I don't think crashes and bugs is a good look for the Xbox brand, and they know it. They'll steer Todd Howard right, God willing.
i wouldn't be so sure about that. MS are incompetent at managing their internal studios, if anything i expect Bethesda games to become worse in polish. Plus it's not clear if MS even wants to be a gaming company anymore. I heard a rumour that they may get rid of Bethesda and the rest of their gaming divisions if things will keep getting complicated.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 04:50
But on the flipside, we can absolutely expect some form of monetization and even online elements. Skyrim was surprisingly tame and respectable with it's DLCs, but I question if ES VI will carry that forward, or if your typical modern-day microtransaction fare will be shoehorned in. They may decide to make the grind just a 'tad' bit slower this time around, and sell you back experience with real money. Or worse yet, they'll ponder the massive success of Skyrim with it's longevity, and decide to make it a live service experience on-par with something like Destiny.
iirc most of Bethesda's fuckery (like paid mods, bethesda launcher, fo76, etc) happened because of Altman and the rest of their greedy execs. MS managers are incompetent and they know it, so they will likely leave Bethesda to do their thing. I don't expect Bethesda to go into GaaS slotmachine territory, not after Fo76 fiasco that nearly ruined the company.
Be rid of Bethesda?, after purchasing them for billions of dollars just a short while ago?. I find that very doubtful, but if true I'd imagine they would spin off their entire Xbox division instead. That way Bethesda would be an 'Xbox' company, not a 'Microsoft' one. That would be a positive outcome, but not as positive as them being an entirely independent entity. No matter what, popularity often begets simplicity. Elder Scrolls will never return to the ways of Daggerfall or Morrowind, and fans of those games aren't being given anything similar to their favorite games. Although recently I've been dabbling in a dungeon crawler, Arx Fatalis, and find it's worldbuilding and mechanics to be superior to Morrowind. It almost makes me wish Arkane would have developed an ES title during their prime, but oh well. This is a franchise that has reached critical mass, and the only place left to go is down. The existence of ESG and various (((individuals))) means that the golden age of RPGs are gone and will never return.
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Post by NEG »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:18
Skyrim wasn't "interesting", but it was a well-crafted
Image
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:18
Daggerfall is a game I haven't properly sunk any time into yet, but from what I've played I don't see what is so beloved about it. Maybe it's just the impression I get from the 2D visuals, but it just never looked or played right to me.
So we can just write your opinion off as graphics whoring then.

It's a 27 year old game, dude.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:18
The Elder Scrolls is too popular now to cater to autistic
Autists are TES' prime demographic, and have been since Morrowind.

There was nothing autistic about Daggerfall either. It was just a first-person roguelike, but bigger than any previously released. Obviously it would need polish to meet modern standards, but there's nothing so complex about it that prevents them from doing so, or from anyone picking it up. It's just that modern Bethesda doesn't have the talent, either in writing or in coding, to pull it off well. You really think having more skills is going to overwhelm people?
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

NEG wrote: March 4th, 2023, 07:19
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:18
Skyrim wasn't "interesting", but it was a well-crafted
Image
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:18
Daggerfall is a game I haven't properly sunk any time into yet, but from what I've played I don't see what is so beloved about it. Maybe it's just the impression I get from the 2D visuals, but it just never looked or played right to me.
So we can just write your opinion off as graphics whoring then.

It's a 27 year old game, dude.
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 03:18
The Elder Scrolls is too popular now to cater to autistic
Autists are TES' prime demographic, and have been since Morrowind.

There was nothing autistic about Daggerfall either. It was just a first-person roguelike, but bigger than any previously released. Obviously it would need polish to meet modern standards, but there's nothing so complex about it that prevents them from doing so, or from anyone picking it up. It's just that modern Bethesda doesn't have the talent, either in writing or in coding, to pull it off well. You really think having more skills is going to overwhelm people?
If you didn't feel like you were on an epic adventure playing Skyrim, I don't know what to tell you. That game is a blast from start-to-finish, and although it's main plot was simplistic and unremarkable it got the job done at least. Not to mention Jeremy Soule's fantastic music. He composed Morrowind too if I recall, but could never get into that game's music because it repeat so damn often. RPGs don't have to be overly complex to have fun, Skyrim proved that to me. Sometimes less is more.

In regards to Daggerfall, I am fully aware of it's age but I feel that it's primitive graphics provide a negative impression for me. Nothing really looks 'right', with it's simplistic dungeons and landscapes, and I could never really get into the experience of playing it. I'm not a graphics whore though believe me, I could play Morrowind just fine and can appreciate good art design. Ideally the next game would include certain elements from Daggerfall, like it's large cities, court system, and usury. Background flavor that would help make the next game stand out, because despite Daggerfall's age many of it's ideas were never even attempted again. It would help if ES VI takes place in High Rock, that way we could visit the exact same locations and see the improvements.
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Post by GhostCow »

How has no one mentioned yet that TES has shit combat? It's just a clickfest with no player skill involved. That's why the series is shit.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

GhostCow wrote: March 4th, 2023, 15:45
How has no one mentioned yet that TES has shit combat? It's just a clickfest with no player skill involved. That's why the series is shit.
Skyrim has the best combat of the series, it's simplistic yet still offers flexibility with magic, and tension. There are mods that improve it of course, but I found even the stock combat serviceable. If you compare it to any of the previous games, there's no contest. I struggle to think how Bethesda can build upon it without being like every other action RPG though, some of the most popular combat mods add Destiny-esque healthbars on enemies and that breaks immersion IMO.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

skyrim combat is worse than oblivion because you have to equip spells
simple as
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 4th, 2023, 15:55
skyrim combat is worse than oblivion because you have to equip spells
simple as
But on the plus side the spells were more impressive, and you could even combine them for a more powerful attack. Magic was never really fun to use before Skyrim.
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Post by GhostCow »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 15:54
I struggle to think how Bethesda can build upon it without being like every other action RPG though
Make it actually feel like you're hitting something. There is no weight to the combat. Have directional melee where the direction your are attacking or blocking in matters. Give the weapons actual physics and collision detection. Anything other that just a clickfest with numbers running in the background to determine everything.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

GhostCow wrote: March 4th, 2023, 16:19
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 15:54
I struggle to think how Bethesda can build upon it without being like every other action RPG though
Make it actually feel like you're hitting something. There is no weight to the combat. Have directional melee where the direction your are attacking or blocking in matters. Give the weapons actual physics and collision detection. Anything other that just a clickfest with numbers running in the background to determine everything.
If you were to borrow the combat of another game and put it into Skyrim, what game would it be?. Remember, if a system is too complex or requires fast reflexes, then the accessibility goes out the window. Skyrim can be played by literal grandmothers, can't say the same for games like Dark Souls for instance. The fun of modern Elder Scrolls games comes from their playability, and the ease of their mechanics. But as it turns out, the game could've been a lot better:

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Post by GhostCow »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:41
If you were to borrow the combat of another game and put it into Skyrim, what game would it be?. Remember, if a system is too complex or requires fast reflexes, then the accessibility goes out the window. Skyrim can be played by literal grandmothers, can't say the same for games like Dark Souls for instance. The fun of modern Elder Scrolls games comes from their playability, and the ease of their mechanics. But as it turns out, the game could've been a lot better:
Everything you just described is exactly why the series is shit and not fun. I'm just going to have to say that you have shit taste man. I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and the only fun I ever managed to get out of those three games was maxing athletics and acrobatics and running around places jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Skyrim is so dumbed down that you can't even do that. Everything else was shit from the lore to the combat. If it had combat similar to something with good first person melee like Mount and Blade, Chivalry, or even Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, it would be a much better series.

It's a series with bad combat and meh to bad writing. I can't find anything good to say about it.
Last edited by GhostCow on March 4th, 2023, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

GhostCow wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:47
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:41
If you were to borrow the combat of another game and put it into Skyrim, what game would it be?. Remember, if a system is too complex or requires fast reflexes, then the accessibility goes out the window. Skyrim can be played by literal grandmothers, can't say the same for games like Dark Souls for instance. The fun of modern Elder Scrolls games comes from their playability, and the ease of their mechanics. But as it turns out, the game could've been a lot better:
Everything you just described is exactly why the series is shit and not fun. I'm just going to have to say that you have shit taste man. I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and the only fun I ever managed to get out of those three games was maxing athletics and acrobatics and running around places jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Everything else was shit.
Then why are you on an Elder Scrolls thread?, the series clearly isn't for you.
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Post by GhostCow »

KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:50
GhostCow wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:47
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:41
If you were to borrow the combat of another game and put it into Skyrim, what game would it be?. Remember, if a system is too complex or requires fast reflexes, then the accessibility goes out the window. Skyrim can be played by literal grandmothers, can't say the same for games like Dark Souls for instance. The fun of modern Elder Scrolls games comes from their playability, and the ease of their mechanics. But as it turns out, the game could've been a lot better:
Everything you just described is exactly why the series is shit and not fun. I'm just going to have to say that you have shit taste man. I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and the only fun I ever managed to get out of those three games was maxing athletics and acrobatics and running around places jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Everything else was shit.
Then why are you on an Elder Scrolls thread?, the series clearly isn't for you.
Am I only allowed to discuss things I like? Don't be retarded.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

GhostCow wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:53
KnightoftheWind wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:50
GhostCow wrote: March 4th, 2023, 17:47


Everything you just described is exactly why the series is shit and not fun. I'm just going to have to say that you have shit taste man. I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and the only fun I ever managed to get out of those three games was maxing athletics and acrobatics and running around places jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Everything else was shit.
Then why are you on an Elder Scrolls thread?, the series clearly isn't for you.
Am I only allowed to discuss things I like? Don't be retarded.
I suppose you can shitpost if you want, but if you have no interest the game/series we are discussing then I doubt you can add much to the conversation. I'd imagine your ideal Elder Scrolls VI would be a completely different game. i.e "Make it more like Pillars of Eternity!"
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Post by Acrux »

Describing what is wrong with a game is not shitposting. If you don't want to hear people disagree with you, you're on the wrong site. We take Todd Howard appreciation very seriously around here.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

You can criticize a game, of course. I for one dislike Morrowind, and can find faults in Oblivion and Skyrim. These aren't perfect games. But if you dislike the core basics of Elder Scrolls, then what can you add to a conversation about it?. It actually reminds me of 343's approach to Halo 4, by hiring people who hated Halo they turned the game into something unrecognizable.
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