WarHammer 40 000: Rogue Trader

KnightoftheWind · Post by **KnightoftheWind** » March 2nd, 2023, 00:53

The narrator seems to paint the picture that "freedom, science and progress" had been arbitrarily halted because of MUH EBIL FASCISTS. However, in 40K lore that era had long passed and was done away with for a reason, because it led to death and degeneracy. There are a lot of parallels between 40K and the real world.

Trithne · Post by **Trithne** » March 2nd, 2023, 09:52

I mean, mankind basically reached the end of the tech tree in the DAoT. Then the tech tree attacked them. There wasn't a whole lot of room for science and progress in the ensuing Age of Strife when most human worlds were struggling to simply survive with their means of interstellar travel lost.

The modern Imperium isn't really anti-science, it's more that the official stance of the Imperium (via the Mechanicum) is that mankind already knew everything worth knowing, and we just need to find it again. Also no robots.

It really seems like the popular 1980s trope of "Techno-Barbarians", which 40k, Battletech, etc were originally about, which are secret cautionary tales about letting our technology automate itself to the point that we no longer understand how it works, just how to use it, has been lost in the 21st century's rush to bring about exactly that future.

Post by **rusty_shackleford** » March 2nd, 2023, 12:20

Was the narration written by someone who has never encountered this setting before?
It's not oppressive for oppression's sake, it's oppressive because humanity faces endless threats. "Free thought, science, and progress" were abandoned because they were killing humanity.

Might as well say any country in wartime is oppressive and abandoned "free thought, science, and progress".

Post by **rusty_shackleford** » March 2nd, 2023, 12:36

Trithne wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2023, 09:52
I mean, mankind basically reached the end of the tech tree in the DAoT. Then the tech tree attacked them. There wasn't a whole lot of room for science and progress in the ensuing Age of Strife when most human worlds were struggling to simply survive with their means of interstellar travel lost.

The modern Imperium isn't really anti-science, it's more that the official stance of the Imperium (via the Mechanicum) is that mankind already knew everything worth knowing, and we just need to find it again. Also no robots.

It really seems like the popular 1980s trope of "Techno-Barbarians", which 40k, Battletech, etc were originally about, which are secret cautionary tales about letting our technology automate itself to the point that we no longer understand how it works, just how to use it, has been lost in the 21st century's rush to bring about exactly that future.

I believe most of this can be traced back to Poul Anderson's Technic History setting. Most of the stories take place in either one of two settings 600 years apart, the stories in the 31st century about the "long night", something that became a recurring theme in space sci-fi. Most of the stories involving Captain Flandry are about him attempting to keep the long night at bay for at least a while longer, knowing it cannot be stopped forever. Flandry is quite amoral in his goal as he knows it's for the greater good, which should sound a bit familiar.

The popular sci-fi tabletop RPG Traveller also stole borrowed most of its source material directly from this.

The_Mask · Post by **The_Mask** » March 17th, 2023, 16:51

Owlcat Games
acum 23 de ore
Towering gothic buildings, aged metal, worn stone — all these things abound in our game, but you will also find the opportunity to touch the grass while visiting distant worlds.

Fedora Master · Post by **Fedora Master** » March 17th, 2023, 18:05

Don't drag this rotten garbage in here.

Atlantico · Post by **Atlantico** » March 18th, 2023, 12:32

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2023, 12:20
Might as well say any country in wartime is oppressive and abandoned "free thought, science, and progress".

Aren't we always in wartime? War against terror. War against poverty. War against drugs. War against cancer. War against climate change.

That's how we abandon free thought, science and progress.

Serus · Post by **Serus** » March 20th, 2023, 13:30

Atlantico wrote: ↑March 18th, 2023, 12:32

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2023, 12:20
Might as well say any country in wartime is oppressive and abandoned "free thought, science, and progress".
Aren't we always in wartime? War against terror. War against poverty. War against drugs. War against cancer. War against climate change.

That's how we abandon free thought, science and progress.

"Progress" is a meaningless word. Free thought - for everyone - is useless and is another failed concept of modern philosophy. Science is nice but sure as hell you don't need freedom of thought for everyone to do it. In addition science in wartime THRIVES. Both World Wars were probably the most fruitful periods for scientific discovery in whole 20th century. Does it mean war is "good", hell no. science is not the end of everything.

KnightoftheWind · Post by **KnightoftheWind** » March 20th, 2023, 22:16

"Progress" is fundamentally a leftist meme and modernist cope. The idea that we must "progress" towards something better by fundamentally altering our morality and the way civilization operates, was the means by which the West was dismantled and rebuilt into the way things are today.

History works in cycles. There is the birth of the civilization, it's golden age, it's decline, and eventually it's collapse. Before the cycle begins anew.

Atlantico · Post by **Atlantico** » March 21st, 2023, 09:52

Serus wrote: ↑March 20th, 2023, 13:30
"Progress" is a meaningless word. Free thought - for everyone - is useless and is another failed concept of modern philosophy. Science is nice but sure as hell you don't need freedom of thought for everyone to do it. In addition science in wartime THRIVES. Both World Wars were probably the most fruitful periods for scientific discovery in whole 20th century. Does it mean war is "good", hell no. science is not the end of everything.

You can pick that up with Rusty, I didn't bring that word up.

I seriously question your assumption that actual wars are fruitful periods for scientific discovery, and you should cower in shame for even bringing up the Meme War II. History did not begin there.

Lhynn · Post by **Lhynn** » March 21st, 2023, 20:25

Fedora Master wrote: ↑March 17th, 2023, 18:05
Don't drag this rotten garbage in here.

Im all for complaining, but you sound like such a cock sucking little bitch phrasing it like that.

Fedora Master · Post by **Fedora Master** » March 22nd, 2023, 05:39

Lhynn wrote: ↑March 21st, 2023, 20:25

Fedora Master wrote: ↑March 17th, 2023, 18:05
Don't drag this rotten garbage in here.
Im all for complaining, but you sound like such a cock sucking little bitch phrasing it like that.

I have issues with the Codex beating dead horse games like the Dragon Age series and Mass Effect. There is no reason to even talk about this shit, it's not worth the attention. We all know how Owlscat games will turn out after Wrath.