The WWIII Thread - Russia takes on the West

[Emphyrio]

the bad thing is that the torture was conducted by some paramilitary guy, and not the dedicated torture spook from Lubyanka. State should maintain its monopoly on violence.

agree, the public torture should be official

[Anon]

russiaboos responding in russiaboo fashion to russians is funny

"torturing terrorists is a bad thing. What about their civil rights?" -rusty, probably

the bad thing is that the torture was conducted by some paramilitary guy, and not the dedicated torture spook from Lubyanka. State should maintain its monopoly on violence.

Btw how much degree do you think Putin has de facto control of his country? I've been under the impression that the zionist and turkic billionaires seem to hold a rather tight leash on him. Do you agree?

[wndrbr]

I have no idea. Sometimes a vague idea begins to form in my head, but then Putin (or some other government official) pulls a stunt that ruins this idea.

Some folk believe that Putin is a dictator with an absolute power, some believe that he's just a talking head, and the real power is in the hands of the Jewish oligarchs. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween, and Putin is basically a lynchpin/mediator who tries to balance out and direct the difference forces that all chaotically play against each other in the country. There are various politicians with their own agendas (the government usually absorbs them into its folds to prevent the creation of opposition), the intelligence agencies (instead of a singular agency like KGB there are multiple competing agencies, i.e. GRU, SVR, FSB, FSO, etc), the armed forces (in addition to the official Russian Army there's also Rosgvardia, Kadyrov's army, PMCs, etc). It's probably the same case with comprador elites. Putin obviously listens and cooperates with the oligarchs, but earlier in his career he made an example out of two of them (Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky), so it's not a one-sided relation. It's likely the same with other countries. Putin have touched the wall while wearing a small hat, but he also helped Assad in Syria. Putin is friends with Erdogan and trades a lot with Turkey, but he also clashed with Turkey in Syria, and weaponized their economic relations by sanctioning the Turkish imports when their relations soured. Putin is strengthening Russian ties with Iran and is buying Iranian weapons, but he's also wary of Iran and AFAIK Russia still didn't give Iran Su 35 fighter jets. It's probably the same with China. Russia still trades and communicates with USA and EU, even though on the outside it seems like both sides hate each other. Hell, Russia is still trading with Ukraine.

tldr Putin is just a normal politician.

[rusty_shackleford]

remember that time russia almost got toppled by a hotdog salesman?

[Anon]

I have no idea. Sometimes a vague idea begins to form in my head, but then Putin (or some other government official) pulls a stunt that ruins this idea.

Some folk believe that Putin is a dictator with an absolute power, some believe that he's just a talking head, and the real power is in the hands of the Jewish oligarchs. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween, and Putin is basically a lynchpin/mediator who tries to balance out and direct the difference forces that all chaotically play against each other in the country. There are various politicians with their own agendas (the government usually absorbs them into its folds to prevent the creation of opposition), the intelligence agencies (instead of a singular agency like KGB there are multiple competing agencies, i.e. GRU, SVR, FSB, FSO, etc), the armed forces (in addition to the official Russian Army there's also Rosgvardia, Kadyrov's army, PMCs, etc). It's probably the same case with comprador elites. Putin obviously listens and cooperates with the oligarchs, but earlier in his career he made an example out of two of them (Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky), so it's not a one-sided relation. It's likely the same with other countries. Putin have touched the wall while wearing a small hat, but he also helped Assad in Syria. Putin is friends with Erdogan and trades a lot with Turkey, but he also clashed with Turkey in Syria, and weaponized their economic relations by sanctioning the Turkish imports when their relations soured. Putin is strengthening Russian ties with Iran and is buying Iranian weapons, but he's also wary of Iran and AFAIK Russia still didn't give Iran Su 35 fighter jets. It's probably the same with China. Russia still trades and communicates with USA and EU, even though on the outside it seems like both sides hate each other. Hell, Russia is still trading with Ukraine.

tldr Putin is just a normal politician.

I do think anybody thinking Putin is leading some kind of world order that'll change the world is completely delusional. As you've made explicit Russia is a country barely holding together (as many others) and all of Putin's work go towards holding it together.

Russia's casus belli over Ukraine is still legitimate and Russia is gonna win this war obviously though.

[OnTilt]

...thinking Putin is leading some kind of world order that'll change the world is completely delusional ...

Its not so much that he's leading, intentionally, some holy war to save the world. Its that this conflict is The West vs Russia-China-Iran-etc. One side is all about child trannies and mandatory anal sex and the other is just . . . normal. I don't see Putin as some messiah figure, but I'm generally going to pick the side that's not making everything gay.

[WaterMage]

https://www.tatar-inform.ru/news/putin- ... ik-5940696

""We know that the crime was committed by the hands of radical Islamists, whose ideology the Islamic world itself has been fighting for centuries," the Russian leader remarked.(...) "But we also see that the U.S. through various channels is trying to convince its satellites and other countries of the world that, according to their intelligence, there is allegedly no trace of Kiev in the Moscow terrorist attack, that the bloody terrorist attack was committed by followers of Islam, members of the ISIS* organization banned in Russia," Putin added. (...)"We know by whose hands this atrocity against Russia and its people was committed. We are interested in who the customer is," the Russian President emphasized in this regard."

______________________________

Yet again, Putin is trying to blame Westerers which advised Russia the highly likely scenario of a terrorist attack(and instead of tightening the security and trying to find likely terrorists, they did nothing) and Ukrainians,,, Central asian muslims could burn Moscow, burn St Petersburg, kills millions of Russians, he still would would not hate them. In fact, he would hate much more anti communist nationalist Ukrainians than any other group and do everything that he can to destroy them.

State should maintain its monopoly on violence

Why? No other institution was more genocidal than them modern centralized state. Most of human history was tribal or small city states with many people holding he means to exercise violence and using violence against a Tyrannical state was considered morally right for most of human history. In Gilded Age USA, had private armed companies and even private police like the Pinkerton. A private citizen could own steam ships with cannons and armored trains with gatling guns and fire at robbers with no question asked. This only changed with Woodrow Wilson which centralized too much power in Federal government, created FED among other things.

Even in Ukraine resistance against RU invasion, much of the success was thanks to the very decentralized territorial defense forces. And back in 2014, what kicked RU from many cities was organizations with no link to Ukraine state like Azov. Uktra centralized continental states with absolute monopoly on the force is a extremely violent modern abomination.

Russia is gonna win this war obviously though.

Define win.

Regime changei n Ukraine? Capturing the entirety of Dongas? Forcing Ukraine to be defenseless? I honestly don't see how either side can accomplish its stated goals. I don't think that UA will gonna get Crimea back for eg. But I also don't think that Ukraine would ever agree to be defenseless and even if Putin manages to put a puppet in UA, the population will gonna remove him Maidan style.

[Dead]

Your politics posts are frequently so thoroughly retarded that I don't know where to begin

[WaterMage]

Your politics posts are frequently so thoroughly retarded that I don't know where to begin

Yep. Keep listening to guys that say that Ukraine is about to lose since 1h22m of the conflict and they will surely accept RU occupation. /sarcasm

[Ligrev]

Your politics posts are frequently so thoroughly retarded that I don't know where to begin

Yep. Keep listening to guys that say that Ukraine is about to lose since 1h22m of the conflict and they will surely accept RU occupation. /sarcasm

[Kalarion]

I warned you all. You wouldn't listen.

[rusty_shackleford]

We are now entering day 67,801 of Illuminated Leader's Special Military Operation. Victory is at hand, the western imperialist dogs will finally be eradicated.

[Kalarion]

We are now entering day 67,801 of Illuminated Leader's Special Military Operation. Victory is at hand, the western imperialist dogs will finally be eradicated.

Rusty that's 185 years ago

[WaterMage]

I posted my burrhurt

You posted a bunch of lies.

Either way, instead of insulting me, can any Putin worshiper here post a single speech of Putin saying anything bad about communism, Bolshevism or USSR? Or anything good about Poles and other Slavs? Or anything bad about "minorities"? Even when this minorities committed a terrorist attack, he seems to hate much more other slavs than them... Bolshevism is what killed more Slavs in human history. Any leader who refuses to acknowledge how evil Bolshevism was can't be good. Andrzej Duda recognizes it. Poroshenko recognizes it. I'm not comparing Putin to western leaders because if your unique defense of Putin is comparing him to Brandon Bidet and Justin Castro Jr....

We are now entering day 67,801 of Illuminated Leader's Special Military Operation. Victory is at hand, the western imperialist dogs will finally be eradicated.

If in the day one of the invasion I said that Ukraine would resist, and 2 years later, Russia would fail to even fully capture Dongabe and Luganda, Kherson, the largest city occupied would be free and even Russian military bloggers would be admitting heavy loses, everyone would get extremely butthurt and sperg Kalarion tier insults over and over and drag the same shitshow in many different threads. I don't think that Ukraine will get all objectives but lets be real. Ukraine outperformed even the most optimistic expectations.

[WaterMage]

Other question to the Slavs in this thread

If instead of denying soviet atrocities/blaming the victim Russia recognized that soviet union was a hell on earth with walls, machine gun nests and minefields to prevent people from leaving, the unique military alliance to only attack its own members, full of bread queues, censorship and persecution, Russians tried to say that was not ethnic Russians who created the Cheka, Iron Felix, Lenin and Stalin where not ethnic Russians, instead of monuments for Iron Felix, Russia had monuments for "whites"(Russians who fought Bolshevism in civil war), and Russians propagandized ethnic Russians crucial for ending soviet union like Boris Yeltsin and Gorbachev would Russians be so hated in Baltic + Poland + Ukraine + etc?

I wanna read answers mostly from Slavs as I"m curious. I know that 99% of the answers will be Putin worshiper westerners with insults.

[DemoGraph]

can any Putin worshiper here post a single speech of Putin saying anything bad about communism, Bolshevism or USSR?

I'm not a Putin worshipper, but

► Show Spoiler

«А то в конечном итоге эта мысль привела к развалу Советского Союза, вот к чему. Там много было мыслей таких: автономизация и так далее. Заложили атомную бомбу под здание, которое называется Россией, она и рванула потом. И мировая революция нам не нужна была. Вот такая мысль там тоже была», — сказал Путин.
Ранее российский президент избегал оценок деятельности Ленина, но несколько раз высказывался о Сталине. Так, в 2002 году он назвал Сталина диктатором, однако призвал не игнорировать его роль в истории, поскольку именно при нем Советский Союз победил в Великой Отечественной войне. В 2013 году Путин также говорил, что «с точки зрения либерального истеблишмента Сталин — такой же кровавый диктатор, как [Оливер] Кромвель».
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/25/01/2016/ ... 5776b77381

Or anything good about Poles and other Slavs?

Сербы не являются тем народом, который западные страны могли бы "додавить" и подчинить.
https://tass.ru/ekonomika/18923211

Or anything bad about "minorities"?

Нельзя делать вид, что проблемы образования детей трудовых мигрантов не существует. Об этом заявил президент России Владимир Путин на Совете по развитию гражданского общества и правам человека.
Он подчеркнул, что дети мигрантов должны учиться, однако этот процесс не должен сопровождаться ухудшением условий для обучения детей россиян.
«Это отдельная тема, и нельзя делать вид, что этой проблемы не существует. Обязательно тоже дам соответствующие поручения подготовить предложения», — приводит ТАСС слова Путина.
Кроме того, Путин заявил, что мигранты в России должны уважать местные законы и традиции.
«Это значит, что люди должны быть готовы с языковой, с этнокультурной точки зрения», — подчеркнул Путин.
https://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2023/ ... 1395.shtml

Other question to the Slavs in this thread
If instead of denying soviet atrocities/blaming the victim Russia recognized that soviet union was a hell on earth

It wasn't.

If ... Russia had monuments for "whites"(Russians who fought Bolshevism in civil war), and Russians propagandized ethnic Russians crucial for ending soviet union like Boris Yeltsin and Gorbachev

Monuments for whites https://dzen.ru/a/YeQ7WEqJh3i4-kLv
Yeltsin https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Памятник_ ... теринбург)
Gorbachev https://dzen.ru/a/Yw55mwHoKGpVvis3
I didn't know those exist. Literally 5 min googling.

If ... Russians propagandized ethnic Russians would Russians be so hated in Baltic + Poland + Ukraine + etc?

Of course they would. Butthurt belt gonna butthurt.

[Kalarion]

can any Putin worshiper here post a single speech of Putin saying anything bad about communism, Bolshevism or USSR?

I'm not a Putin worshipper, but

► Show Spoiler

«А то в конечном итоге эта мысль привела к развалу Советского Союза, вот к чему. Там много было мыслей таких: автономизация и так далее. Заложили атомную бомбу под здание, которое называется Россией, она и рванула потом. И мировая революция нам не нужна была. Вот такая мысль там тоже была», — сказал Путин.
Ранее российский президент избегал оценок деятельности Ленина, но несколько раз высказывался о Сталине. Так, в 2002 году он назвал Сталина диктатором, однако призвал не игнорировать его роль в истории, поскольку именно при нем Советский Союз победил в Великой Отечественной войне. В 2013 году Путин также говорил, что «с точки зрения либерального истеблишмента Сталин — такой же кровавый диктатор, как [Оливер] Кромвель».
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/25/01/2016/ ... 5776b77381

Or anything good about Poles and other Slavs?

Сербы не являются тем народом, который западные страны могли бы "додавить" и подчинить.
https://tass.ru/ekonomika/18923211

Or anything bad about "minorities"?

Нельзя делать вид, что проблемы образования детей трудовых мигрантов не существует. Об этом заявил президент России Владимир Путин на Совете по развитию гражданского общества и правам человека.
Он подчеркнул, что дети мигрантов должны учиться, однако этот процесс не должен сопровождаться ухудшением условий для обучения детей россиян.
«Это отдельная тема, и нельзя делать вид, что этой проблемы не существует. Обязательно тоже дам соответствующие поручения подготовить предложения», — приводит ТАСС слова Путина.
Кроме того, Путин заявил, что мигранты в России должны уважать местные законы и традиции.
«Это значит, что люди должны быть готовы с языковой, с этнокультурной точки зрения», — подчеркнул Путин.
https://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2023/ ... 1395.shtml

Other question to the Slavs in this thread
If instead of denying soviet atrocities/blaming the victim Russia recognized that soviet union was a hell on earth

It wasn't.

If ... Russia had monuments for "whites"(Russians who fought Bolshevism in civil war), and Russians propagandized ethnic Russians crucial for ending soviet union like Boris Yeltsin and Gorbachev

Monuments for whites https://dzen.ru/a/YeQ7WEqJh3i4-kLv
Yeltsin https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Памятник_ ... теринбург)
Gorbachev https://dzen.ru/a/Yw55mwHoKGpVvis3
I didn't know those exist. Literally 5 min googling.

If ... Russians propagandized ethnic Russians would Russians be so hated in Baltic + Poland + Ukraine + etc?

Of course they would. Butthurt belt gonna butthurt.

Demograph... no...

Why didn't you pay heed to my warning

[DemoGraph]

Why didn't you pay heed to my warning

I don't see it.

[Emphyrio]

Why didn't you pay heed to my warning

I don't see it.

the warning is "don't talk to watermage"

[WaterMage]

I'm not a Putin worshipper, but
(...) Of course they would. Butthurt belt gonna butthurt.

I see, Putin don't hate all slavs, only all except Serbs. Jokes aside, amazing answer. You are right in many points. Only a nitpik about it. Would be great if Russian neightbors answered that question here, but I asked a Pole and he said that in such case, where RU abandoned soviet nostalgia, Russia would be still disliked in Poland, but not with the same intensity. He said that Poles would view Russia like they view Germany and that pro RU parties in Ukraine would be much more popular.

I also asked Ukrainians about "if UA army loses, the guerrila war effort fails and UA is occupied by a pro KRemlin puppet like Viktor Medvechuk, what Ukrainians would do" he said that RU would need to maintain strong military presence to prevent the population from removing him by force and in such case, the population would overwhelmingly flee to Poland + Baltic.

Either way, sorry for committing hte ultimate heresy of listening to People who fear being invaded by Russia about the prospects of an invasion instead of propagandists predicting a near defeat of Ukraine since day one like Colonel McGregor.

Why didn't you pay heed to my warning

Is not a warning, Is a defamation campaign full of lies which you tried to spread into other threads.

If you believe that I only post "retarded" stuff, you can :
A ) Prove me wrong. Show me one prediction of a RU propagandist which was truth
B ) Add me to your ignore list and never interact with me again

But no, you are not satisfied with not interacting with someone that you hate. You wanna "cancel" someone like an SJW. I don't care about it, my unique fear is if you try to dox me and get me fired.

[Anon]

my unique fear is if you try to dox me and get me fired.

About that, I'm pretty sure only Rusty has potential user IRL data (if you don't care hiding your IP that is) and I trust he isn't sharing that with anybody.

But if you're interacting with users in other spaces, then yeah it becomes more complicated (though I don't think anybody here would try to do that kinda thing over some silly internet disagreement, but ofc you can never know)

[Emphyrio]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, toilet cleaners are always in demand.

[rusty_shackleford]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, toilet cleaners are always in demand.

Glad to hear you've found a new career after being supplanted by AI

[DemoGraph]

Either way, sorry for committing hte ultimate heresy of listening to People who fear being invaded by Russia

"People" don't need to be afraid of Russian invasion if they don't act like retards.
Or Soviet invasion past ~1930 for that matter. Even Finland didn't lose its independence in 1940 and 1944.

where RU abandoned soviet nostalgia, Russia would be still disliked in Poland, but not with the same intensity. He said that Poles would view Russia like they view Germany

Nationalistic Poles tend to hate, despise or want to exploit all of their neighbours. Including Germans.

and that pro RU parties in Ukraine would be much more popular.

Pro-Russian or pro-communist parties were a majority before the coup of 2014 and subsequent purges.

in such case, the population would overwhelmingly flee to Poland + Baltic.

They shouldn't let the door hit them on the way out.

propagandists predicting a near defeat of Ukraine since day one like Colonel McGregor.

Or Milley. https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-s ... ne-sources

propagandists ... like Colonel McGregor.

He's not just a propagandist. I think that he was one of the best American combat officers during Gulf war.

[Acrux]

my unique fear is if you try to dox me and get me fired.

@Kalarion knows your NAME and ADDRESS, Pyotr. And he's going to have his BEST FRIEND rusty send his NSA AI bots to your house - RIGHT NOW. Sayonara sucker!

► Show Spoiler

Kalarion is right about your retardation.

[WaterMage]

Pro-Russian or pro-communist parties were a majority before the coup of 2014 and subsequent purges.

I have heard that many elections where "fortified" but again, IDK if this information is truth as comes from a Ukrainian from Lviv, you know, the unique city in Ukraine to have a monument for freaking Bandera. A guy who managed to piss of Poles, Russians and Nazis at the same time. However, I do trust much more Ukrainians about Ukraine than non Ukrainians. Either way, with the most pro RU regions of Ukraine under RU occupation, is obvious that the remain country will become much more pro west. Just like if USA "blue states" become occupied, USA will become much more red.

[Dead]

I don't care about it, my unique fear is if you try to dox me and get me fired.

It would help to stop posting repulsive pictures of your crusty back and other body parts

[rusty_shackleford]

This is probably the fourth time in just a couple days that this has come up, but no, We(royal we) will not release any personally identifying information to foreign authorities. And unless it's a very good reason, we won't release it to the US government either. We don't even have any personal identifying information on any of you.

The closest would probably be those who donate, but there is no guarantee donations are performed by the poster whose name is entered, there is no verification done(on purpose.) Anyone can donate money and enter whatever username they want, many enter no username.

[asf]

it is over, nsa knows all about all of you now

[Ligrev]

I'm not a Putin worshipper, but
(...) Of course they would. Butthurt belt gonna butthurt.

I see, Putin don't hate all slavs, only all except Serbs. Jokes aside, amazing answer. You are right in many points. Only a nitpik about it. Would be great if Russian neightbors answered that question here, but I asked a Pole and he said that in such case, where RU abandoned soviet nostalgia, Russia would be still disliked in Poland, but not with the same intensity. He said that Poles would view Russia like they view Germany and that pro RU parties in Ukraine would be much more popular.

I also asked Ukrainians about "if UA army loses, the guerrila war effort fails and UA is occupied by a pro KRemlin puppet like Viktor Medvechuk, what Ukrainians would do" he said that RU would need to maintain strong military presence to prevent the population from removing him by force and in such case, the population would overwhelmingly flee to Poland + Baltic.

Either way, sorry for committing hte ultimate heresy of listening to People who fear being invaded by Russia about the prospects of an invasion instead of propagandists predicting a near defeat of Ukraine since day one like Colonel McGregor.

Why didn't you pay heed to my warning

Is not a warning, Is a defamation campaign full of lies which you tried to spread into other threads.

If you believe that I only post "retarded" stuff, you can :
A ) Prove me wrong. Show me one prediction of a RU propagandist which was truth
B ) Add me to your ignore list and never interact with me again

But no, you are not satisfied with not interacting with someone that you hate. You wanna "cancel" someone like an SJW. I don't care about it, my unique fear is if you try to dox me and get me fired.

Nuance matters.

For example:

Stalin and the chosen ones from the synagogue of satan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_St ... tisemitism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

Why would anyone dox you?