Chronicling the inability of gamedevs to make video games

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rusty_shackleford
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Chronicling the inability of gamedevs to make video games

Post by rusty_shackleford »

Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League delayed indefinitely after being in development for almost a decade.
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/suicid ... efinitely/
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Post by Klerik »

I think videogames have peaked and most of the things we experience nowadays are a form of scrapping the bottom of the barrel. The internet allows people to research information and hobbies in such a way that they don't need to act out their fantasies in a videogame format. The essential problem with videogames is the same with all other forms of entertainment. The inability to articulate new stories.

Those attatched to their fetish niche biological matrix program, their big brother binky, their electronic sedative, their fake opiate materialist god, are the unawakened enemies of the new paradigm of creativity that is about to be brokered by the synthesis of these new technological breakthroughs we are witness to. The psychological barriers of the human mind will fall into new paradigms and videogames will be nothing more than a sense of nostalgia. I'm perfectly fine with the idea of 100 years from now people still playing the same games they did 10 years ago. They do that nowadays with things like chess and cards, ect.

Being wrong about this is not a bad thing because new is always good, but we're experiencing a decline obviously, but the incline is somewhere else. Just enjoy your Alpha Centauri campaign, or mod it into something more meaningful.

Which reminds me that videogames are a great teaching tool for children and chronologizing more information into a gameplay loop will be very beneficial, but don't expect YOU to enjoy it as you get older.

Oh wait, I almost forgot about all the marxist propoganda and marketing gimmicks there for a second that we have to be subject to, and the corporate mercenary intellectual property monopolies. Well fuck me. It was nice there for a second.
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Post by Tweed »

Klerik wrote: March 10th, 2023, 06:22
Those attatched to their fetish niche biological matrix program, their big brother binky, their electronic sedative, their fake opiate materialist god, are the unawakened enemies of the new paradigm of creativity that is about to be brokered by the synthesis of these new technological breakthroughs we are witness to. The psychological barriers of the human mind will fall into new paradigms and videogames will be nothing more than a sense of nostalgia.
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Post by gerey »

I've said it a few times - if you ever wonder why modern games suck, just take a look at a picture of the development team.

Gotham Knights is a perfect example of this. It somehow manages to look and play worse than Arkham Knight, a game that came out 8 years ago, and the development team looks just like you'd expect them to.

Image

It's no coincidence that modern games take 5+ years to make, require development teams numbering in the hundreds, and still somehow manage to release half-finished, buggy and lacking in the complexity and ambition of games from 30 years ago - and this despite a wealth of institutional experience to fall back on, mature engines and development tools, middleware and plenty of examples of what works and what doesn't. Making a game today is easier than ever, and yet less good games are being released nowadays than at any previous point in history.

Developers in the 90s had none of those advantages - they were largely required to code their own engines and tools from scratch, while simultaneously developing the game itself.

Just look at Ubisoft or 343. Perfect microcosm of the modern gamedev - massively bloated companies stuffed to the brim with women, dangerhairs, faggots, troons and minorities - needing development teams numbering 200+ employees and budgets rivaling Hollywood blockbusters, and still being unable to release a finished product after half a decade of development.

343, same demographic breakdown, same issues. They were handed over one of the biggest gaming franchises to have ever existed and have proceeded to so thoroughly fuck it up that Halo is basically dead. Infinite is such a shitshow that almost two years after release they still haven't fixed game-breaking bugs, and likely never will.

Same issues crop up with EA, Activision, Blizzard - basically every AAA developer/publisher is seemingly incapable of making a functional product.

I'm old enough to remember EA games from the mid-00s. None of those games were particularly inspiring, but the EA brand at least stood for a competent product that would run and play well (at least on consoles).

We can see a similar trend all across the industry. Fedora Master put it best when he said that modern game developers have forgotten how to build the pyramids. And it's not just games, it's everything. From movies, to books, comics, cars, airplanes, even critical infrastructure. The less (non-liberal) white men are included in a project, the shitter it will be - this is an objective truth.
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Post by Dead »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 10th, 2023, 06:08
Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League delayed indefinitely after being in development for almost a decade.
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/suicid ... efinitely/
It's called "Suicide Squad" for a reason.
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Post by wndrbr »

gerey wrote: March 10th, 2023, 21:50
It's no coincidence that modern games take 5+ years to make, require development teams numbering in the hundreds, and still somehow manage to release half-finished, buggy and lacking in the complexity and ambition of games from 30 years ago - and this despite a wealth of institutional experience to fall back on, mature engines and development tools, middleware and plenty of examples of what works and what doesn't. Making a game today is easier than ever, and yet less good games are being released nowadays than at any previous point in history.
the technological bloat is actually making things harder, not easier. Modern development has a low entry barrier, but in order to make something that's not shit you need an enormous amount of knowledge and competence. It's not surprising that back in the day games took one year or sometimes even months to develop - devs didn't need to be skilled in a million of various tools, they didn't need to merge together multiple huge middlewares, they didn't have to know the various custom scripting engines, they didn't have access to asset databases or indian sweatshops. The limiting factor of needing to write your own engine and tools is what made games good, because it kept away the incompetent idea guys, worthless humanities students and other freeloaders.
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Post by J1M »

wndrbr wrote: March 11th, 2023, 02:50
gerey wrote: March 10th, 2023, 21:50
It's no coincidence that modern games take 5+ years to make, require development teams numbering in the hundreds, and still somehow manage to release half-finished, buggy and lacking in the complexity and ambition of games from 30 years ago - and this despite a wealth of institutional experience to fall back on, mature engines and development tools, middleware and plenty of examples of what works and what doesn't. Making a game today is easier than ever, and yet less good games are being released nowadays than at any previous point in history.
the technological bloat is actually making things harder, not easier. Modern development has a low entry barrier, but in order to make something that's not shit you need an enormous amount of knowledge and competence. It's not surprising that back in the day games took one year or sometimes even months to develop - devs didn't need to be skilled in a million of various tools, they didn't need to merge together multiple huge middlewares, they didn't have to know the various custom scripting engines, they didn't have access to asset databases or indian sweatshops. The limiting factor of needing to write your own engine and tools is what made games good, because it kept away the incompetent idea guys, worthless humanities students and other freeloaders.
If you target a graphical fidelity a couple of years back from the bleeding edge, a lot of that technical complexity goes away.
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Post by Atlantico »

J1M wrote: March 11th, 2023, 15:03
wndrbr wrote: March 11th, 2023, 02:50
gerey wrote: March 10th, 2023, 21:50
It's no coincidence that modern games take 5+ years to make, require development teams numbering in the hundreds, and still somehow manage to release half-finished, buggy and lacking in the complexity and ambition of games from 30 years ago - and this despite a wealth of institutional experience to fall back on, mature engines and development tools, middleware and plenty of examples of what works and what doesn't. Making a game today is easier than ever, and yet less good games are being released nowadays than at any previous point in history.
the technological bloat is actually making things harder, not easier. Modern development has a low entry barrier, but in order to make something that's not shit you need an enormous amount of knowledge and competence. It's not surprising that back in the day games took one year or sometimes even months to develop - devs didn't need to be skilled in a million of various tools, they didn't need to merge together multiple huge middlewares, they didn't have to know the various custom scripting engines, they didn't have access to asset databases or indian sweatshops. The limiting factor of needing to write your own engine and tools is what made games good, because it kept away the incompetent idea guys, worthless humanities students and other freeloaders.
If you target a graphical fidelity a couple of years back from the bleeding edge, a lot of that technical complexity goes away.
This is true, but where are the simple pixelart games that rival Ultima V?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Pixel art was always difficult to make. Good pixel art is harder than good 3D art, there's a reason it has essentially died other than crappy faux-retro pixel art.
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Post by Dead »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 12th, 2023, 13:09
Pixel art was always difficult to make. Good pixel art is harder than good 3D art, there's a reason it has essentially died other than crappy faux-retro pixel art.
Wouldn't it be feasible to make crude 3D models and pixelate them? With a fixed camera angle, wouldn't it be possible to take snapshots of these and make sprites with them?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Dead wrote: March 12th, 2023, 13:24
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 12th, 2023, 13:09
Pixel art was always difficult to make. Good pixel art is harder than good 3D art, there's a reason it has essentially died other than crappy faux-retro pixel art.
Wouldn't it be feasible to make crude 3D models and pixelate them? With a fixed camera angle, wouldn't it be possible to take snapshots of these and make sprites with them?
Yes, but it won't look like good pixel art. Someone capable of doing pixel art equivalent to the height of the popularity of pixel art games charges a fortune for work.

Also, they'll probably be replaced by cheap AI in the near future. :scratch:
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Wolf Among Us 2 gets delayed out of 2023 just a week after announcing a 2023 release date.
https://www.polygon.com/22925746/the-wo ... 23-trailer
https://www.eurogamer.net/the-wolf-amon ... and-crunch

To avoid burnout and crunch it takes us at least 11 years to make a 15 hour long game you see.
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Post by Atlantico »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 12th, 2023, 13:09
Pixel art was always difficult to make. Good pixel art is harder than good 3D art, there's a reason it has essentially died other than crappy faux-retro pixel art.
Not really talking about the art.
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Post by J1M »

Atlantico wrote: March 12th, 2023, 13:05
J1M wrote: March 11th, 2023, 15:03
wndrbr wrote: March 11th, 2023, 02:50


the technological bloat is actually making things harder, not easier. Modern development has a low entry barrier, but in order to make something that's not shit you need an enormous amount of knowledge and competence. It's not surprising that back in the day games took one year or sometimes even months to develop - devs didn't need to be skilled in a million of various tools, they didn't need to merge together multiple huge middlewares, they didn't have to know the various custom scripting engines, they didn't have access to asset databases or indian sweatshops. The limiting factor of needing to write your own engine and tools is what made games good, because it kept away the incompetent idea guys, worthless humanities students and other freeloaders.
If you target a graphical fidelity a couple of years back from the bleeding edge, a lot of that technical complexity goes away.
This is true, but where are the simple pixelart games that rival Ultima V?
As team size increases, the ability for a clear vision to be executed on is comprised and the result shifts closer and closer to a bland mix of inoffensive choices made by committee.

The reason things like AI are so exciting for future game development is simple: team size can get smaller.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Voice actor used to working in an industry that meets deadlines was forced to delete a statement about when Spiderman 2 is supposed to release because video games don't ever meet deadlines.
https://www.vg247.com/spider-man-2-sete ... enom-actor
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Post by Fargus »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 12th, 2023, 13:29
Wolf Among Us 2 gets delayed out of 2023 just a week after announcing a 2023 release date.
https://www.polygon.com/22925746/the-wo ... 23-trailer
https://www.eurogamer.net/the-wolf-amon ... and-crunch

To avoid burnout and crunch it takes us at least 11 years to make a 15 hour long game you see.
A fucking telltalesque movie game with fake choices no less... Telltale used to shit out 4 of those a year.
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 31st, 2023, 06:57
E3 canceled, most likely because there's no games to discuss
https://www.ign.com/articles/e3-has-been-canceled
IGN wrote:
The ESA concludes the email by reiterating its commitment to advocacy work. It does not mention undertaking the show again in future years.
...Advocacy work? I'm having deja vu of that statement from Avellone's accusers about how everything they said was actually meant to support the alphabet people.
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Post by wndrbr »

Last year there were news about Star Wars KOTOR remake being put on pause over some problems with development. Admins of a Russian RPG-themed forum have dug up an interview with Saber Portu (formerly known as Bigmoon Entertainment) which has some new info.

Article (machine-translated)

tl;dr
► Show Spoiler
The interesting part is that everyone thought the remake got canned/rebooted because of Aspyr's incompetency and lack of experience (like Bloodlines 2), but this article paints a different picture.
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Post by J1M »

"Let's remake popular game! We'll just change the camera angle, combat system, and story. Easy, should cost almost nothing and be out in a year!" -Sony executives, probably
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

wndrbr wrote: March 31st, 2023, 15:50
Last year there were news about Star Wars KOTOR remake being put on pause over some problems with development. Admins of a Russian RPG-themed forum have dug up an interview with Saber Portu (formerly known as Bigmoon Entertainment) which has some new info.

Article (machine-translated)

tl;dr
► Show Spoiler
The interesting part is that everyone thought the remake got canned/rebooted because of Aspyr's incompetency and lack of experience (like Bloodlines 2), but this article paints a different picture.
iirc the lead artist was formerly the lead artist on SWG, I have a lot of trouble believing Sony's claims.

This guy:
https://www.mobygames.com/person/90677/jason-minor/

Apparently they dismissed him. His entire career is basically Star Wars stuff.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

Regardless the remake was going to suck ass anyway given modern standards and the "creatives" involved.
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Post by Decline »

wndrbr wrote: March 11th, 2023, 02:50
the technological bloat is actually making things harder, not easier.
I disagree. Modern tooling made software engineering a lot easier. But you still need to know what you are doing. And here is the crux of the matter. Yesteryear developers were self-motivated self-taught 160 IQ+ entrepreneurs that did shit because it was cool. That is why games became successful. And then what happened is what always happens when something becomes (too) successful: It gets standardized by way of channeling hundreds of midwits through university degrees into technical and creative positions where they predictably fail.

Here is the deal. Of 100 programmers, perhaps 20 are worth their salt. And of these 20 perhaps 4 have the multi-domain understanding required to pull off a game. Salt with underpaid, shitty working conditions and political bullshit at 11/10 and these 4 rather go running a farm or a bakery or other actual meaningful shit than waste their time to satisfy ungrateful assholes (managers and customers).
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Post by wndrbr »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 31st, 2023, 21:50
iirc the lead artist was formerly the lead artist on SWG, I have a lot of trouble believing Sony's claims.

This guy:
https://www.mobygames.com/person/90677/jason-minor/

Apparently they dismissed him. His entire career is basically Star Wars stuff.
good art doesn't equal high production values. Maybe the game looked decent enough, but Sony wanted it to have high-quality facial animations and a ton of cinematics?
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Post by Sweeper »

Video game development is a craft, not an artform. On one side of the spectrum you've got the lone dev or small team, and on the other, the corporate team of drones creating the next big AAA game that's virtually identically to any other AAA game. The former is a craftsman, the latter is a factory worker. The former is created painstakingly, with thought and care put into the creation and great attention to detail. The latter is made according to a schematic.

Even if AAA devs were capable of creating something of quality it still wouldn't satisfy simply due to the fact that they have to follow a long checklist, and the final product would end up looking nearly exactly the same as any other AAA product.

The blue haired dykes with pronouns on their twitter are just a garnish on the shit sandwich that is modern game development.
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Post by somerandomdude »

When it first started on steam 10 years ago, I was initially optimistic that early access might provide developers a way to get more data from play testers, and develop their games quicker, and release titles that were better optimized with less bugs, but it turns out that was fabulously optimistic. In the end, all early access did was further capitalize low quality games from inexperienced developers, and the good developers who honestly and effectively used early access are rare exceptions. Overall, it's made gaming worse IMO.
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